Cruising wo a windlass

[High Wire]

I have a 60 pound Manson Supreme with all chain. First night on long trip (last night) the windlass stopped working.

Not sure what other failure on board I would fear more.

Fortunately I know the issue and can fix it....had it happen 2 years ago....but takes a few good hours to put back into the reliable mode....so tomorrow is repair day.

The failure does not allow manual use so those that think all windlass failures can be easily overcome...not so... unless you get creative with rope wraps on tbe capstan and using the manual handle, ratchiting but using the rope to prevent slippage back in the water. My failure is where the interior pawls dont engage and the wildcat freewheels in both directions.... all the time.

Before you bother with suggestions on possible problems...I know exavtly where the problem is.

So bottom line...would never cruise without a windlass if I had a heavy anchor and all chain rode. If line and short chain say under 50 feet, and the anchor was less than 50 pounds, then different story.

I would hate to think about trying to raise that by hand in any kind of wind. Last year we had a windlass failure but to my luck, the main would not lower due to a corroded control wire terminal. Got to try out the backup 22# Danforth/nylon which worked fine but needed more scope. Pulled by hand pretty easily.

 

[Dougcole]

What hasn't been addressed here is the area you are cruising in. Our old boat (36' Gulfstar) did not have a windlass and we cruised it extensivly for 8 years. Admittedly, I was a little younger (in my 40's) but the biggest thing is that we almost never anchor in water deeper than 20', most of the time more like 7' to 10'.

The old boat had a Fortress f(can't remember the size) and 75' of chain along with a good bow roller set up.

I'd just take up slack while my wife slowly motored us up right over the anchor, then I'd snub off, use the boat to pop the anchor out of the bottom and pull up the last 15' or so. It was easy, never any issues, even when we had to reset a few times.

And, no, I'm not a big guy, I weigh 160lbs.

With the right set up and in the right area it can be done. I wouldn't want to do it in real deep water though.

 

[Nomad Willy]

The best advice I’ve heard is to get a Fortress anchor.

Minimal chain and a light anchor. It works. Need a high holding power anchor. My boat is smaller (30’ and 8 tons). Never have had a windlass but awhile back I installed a capstan and quite reciently a new Endurance Marine capstan. I use very little chain and pull the last bit of rode by hand. A 30lb anchor is way different than a 15lb anchor .. as mentioned before. 80’ of wet 5/8ths line is a lot of weight.

I use a number of anchors for general anchoring but for a gale I use my storm anchor, an 18lb XYZ. Haven’t dragged.

If I could go back to when I bought my 2nd capstan I’d get a windlass instead. But I’m 77 and not getting any stronger. If I don’t recover from my rotater cuff operation (std is a long recovery) I’ll still get a windlass and much more chain.

But my hand pulling or (w the aid of a capstan) and usually about 15’ of chain has served me well for many years. Went to Alaska and back w my previous boat (Albin 25) using short chain and a 16lb Claw. May have been lucky on that one.

 

[FF]

4- 5 ft of chain with a nylon anchor line is all that's needed if you avoid coral.

One of the aluminum imitation Danforths could lower the ground tackle weight to 20-25 lbs.

In no wind simply pulling the boat to the anchor will usually create enough momentum to pull the anchor , if you are quick to cleat it as you go over the top.

Low buck solution is a used 2 speed sail boat sheet winch , which can be later re- purposed as a deck winch for dock lines or dink hoisting.

 

[Group9]

On our last return from the Bahamas on our old boat, our windless broke four days from home. I pulled up the 55 pound Rocna and 5/16 chain up by hand one time and then stayed in a marina every other night to avoid having to do that again.

If I didn't have a windless, I'd have a Fortress, a little chain, and he rest nylon rode. In fact that's a good back up system anyway and what we have for our reserve anchor now.

 

[rwidman]

On our last return from the Bahamas on our old boat, our windless broke four days from home. I pulled up the 55 pound Rocna and 5/16 chain up by hand one time and then stayed in a marina every other night to avoid having to do that again............... .

And that's what I did when mine failed. Twice.

 

[koliver]

Its all about the weight.
On my 30' sailboat, I used a 20# Danforth on 30 ft of 1/4" chain, the balance rope, no windlass. I never considered that having a windlass would be an improvement. I went 11 years with that setup. The next boat was 37', double the displacement. It was equipped with a 10 kg CQR on 100' of 5/16th chain, followed by nylon, all on a manual windlass. That one failed once, and I fixed it right away, as that weight of tackle was beyond what I was willing to hoist by hand, though still young enough. I had that setup for 6 years and never wished for more. Now, with another doubling of displacement, on a 44# CQR, 210' of 5/16 chain followed by Nylon, all pulled up by a Tigres 1000w windlass, I can't imagine using anything less on this boat, though more would be unnecessary.
You just need to match the windlass to the tackle, and the tackle to the weight of the boat.

 

[Nomad Willy]

FF,
Very much agree w your post #34.
Very much love your new avatar. Could you post it so we can see it bigger?

 

[Simi 60]

4- 5 ft of chain with a nylon anchor line is all that's needed if you avoid coral.
.

On what, a dinghy?

 

[AKDoug]

On what, a dinghy?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Simi and AkDoug,
The greatest authority on pleasure boating says “a short length of chain (6 to 8’)”.

 

[BruceK]

Compromising on anchor and rode choice to accommodate not having a windlass makes no sense. A good anchoring at anchor system is not just a way to comfortable nights, it`s a safety item too. if I want it to stay where I put it, or to retrieve it in a hurry without the most able people on the boat devoting themselves to a manual retrieve, I want a good windlass,anchor, and rode, chosen for quality, not for easy manual retrieve.

 

[AKDoug]

Short is a relative term, as is "long". I consider half of the length of my boat to be short, and would never count on a 6' piece of chain on an aluminum anchor to penetrate the bottom. I want some chain to be lying on the bottom to encourage my anchor into the right position to penetrate. JMO

 

[Nomad Willy]

Bruce wrote;
“Compromising on anchor and rode choice to accommodate not having a windlass makes no sense.”
No it dosn’t. But I have years of anchoring experience and have never dragged. So as I see it it’s no compromise.
However if I was to change to a windlass tomorrow I’d have more chain and probably a bigger anchor.

AKDoug,
That’s what Chapman’s said.
Now I only have 4’ of chain but it’s 5/8” chain as heavy as 15’ of 1/4” chain. About that it’s a small compromise. Consider this a correction to the above response to Bruce. I use the much heavier chain to be able to raise the anchor almost to the surface of the water with the capstan so it’s very easy to pull. You guys are right I could “mend my ways” by having 15’ of chain but that would weigh the same as the short heavy chain. But to “mend my ways” I’d need 50’ of 1/4” chain but then I’ need to pull 50’ of rode.

So to some small degree I am compromising my rode. But I do use an anchor proven by myself in 50+ knot gales (XYZ) when there is serious wind in the marine forecast. Otherwise I usually use one of my experimental anchors. A new one is coming up soon.

 

[Al]

We had a recent windlass failure caused by overtightened terminal lug on install.

We tried the emergency handle to manually pull in the 300ft of chain and 150lb of anchor but gave that up as a joke.

And the end of the story??? We need to know if you used a "MacGyver" solution.

 

[Simi 60]

And the end of the story??? We need to know if you used a "MacGyver" solution.

There was no Mcgyver solution though we did ask here and tried several things so we had to tough it out in a not ideal anchorage for a few days

Lucky for us we have a large and fast dinghy to handle the rough and were at an island with a ferry service back to the mainland and crew who dropped the motor off and picked up from an auto electrician who resoldered the stud.
$100 for the fix and $10 in freight saw us out of there a few days later.

 

[BruceK]

Simi, Maybe they were more interested in the retrieve.
Ours was 2 guys working together,both heaving, with one feeding the rode down the tube to the chain locker. Worked surprisingly well for all 60M of it.

 

[FF]

"On what, a dinghy?"

Mr Ogg , the inventor of the Danforth anchor did not even bother with a few ft of chain .

After WWII when surplus anchors were cheap, some folks added a couple of ft of chain , so they could buy a smaller anchor.

 

[Art]

As FF clearly implies in post # 48, and I agree with:

If an anchor is deployed correctly and set correctly then chain is not actually required.


That said... the weight of at least some chain as well as its durability to strongly resist any abrasions are all good factors for helping to set an anchor as well as being sure the anchor's lead remains in good condition.


IMO, for smaller cruising pleasure boats [let's say 24' to 36']: Appropriate schedule chain lead attached to appropriate style and size anchor should be between 10' minimum to 20' maximum with real good line there after.

Reason... Small boats need not carry large weight of all-chain in their forepeak. Also, for relative weight added - with rope rode the boat can easily carry 3X [or more] the length of rode for anchoring in deep waters and still be able to get the applicable scope fed out.

There are sooooo many different ways to correctly set up a boat for anchor deployment, retrieval and storage. These "ways" are usually the result of physical needs, capital available and boat size. As well as... boat owner's belief in what is best for their boat and personal energy use.

Happy Anchor-Set-Up Daze! - Art

 

[FF]

I find the best use for some chain on the anchor is it makes a very secure method for having the anchor ready to deploy with use of a deck mounted chain stopper.

Should the next owner want all chain for the Bahamas , a stopper is required , so its installed.

 

[HopCar]

My buddy has a 25 ft Outboard powered boat. His anchor is about a 12 pound Delta.

I suggested he put an anchor windlass on it. He laughed at me. "I don't need no stinking windlass."

One year his father-in-Law asked me what to get him for Christmas. Of course I suggested a windlass.

My friend loves it! It makes anchoring so much easier, even if you aren't dealing with a lot of weight. You'll never regret installing an anchor windlass.

 

[Art]

My buddy has a 25 ft Outboard powered boat. His anchor is about a 12 pound Delta.

I suggested he put an anchor windlass on it. He laughed at me. "I don't need no stinking windlass."

One year his father-in-Law asked me what to get him for Christmas. Of course I suggested a windlass.

My friend loves it! It makes anchoring so much easier, even if you aren't dealing with a lot of weight. You'll never regret installing an anchor windlass.

Yo, Parks

What's up with your old boat and "new" boat... now?? Last photo I saw your boat was unfortunately too well "anchored" on the bottom. Best lick in your doings!

Art

 

[Crusty Chief]

No windless, Oh no! Cant imagine not having a windless.... Actually I can, LOL

 

[Al]

No windless, Oh no! Cant imagine not having a windless.... Actually I can, LOL

Took a while John, but I knew you would come through!!

 

[Donna]

Hold on here. You mean my windlass should be able to pull up the chain also? Help! My windlass won't pull the chain. what could be the problem?

As far as cruising without a windlass, I'm a marina cruiser with the exception of a night or 2 every couple of months anchored out.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Took a while John, but I knew you would come through!!

Wanna bet on if ASD responds?

 

[FlyWright]

Hold on here. You mean my windlass should be able to pull up the chain also? Help! My windlass won't pull the chain. what could be the problem?

As far as cruising without a windlass, I'm a marina cruiser with the exception of a night or 2 every couple of months anchored out.

Depends on your windlass gypsy. Mine is a combo gypsy so it hauls chain and rope. Some haul just rope...others just chain.

Show us a picture of your gypsy. On chain gypsies, it's important that the chain and gypsy be properly sized for each other.

 

[Donna]

Depends on your windlass gypsy. Mine is a combo gypsy so it hauls chain and rope. Some haul just rope...others just chain.

Show us a picture of your gypsy. On chain gypsies, it's important that the chain and gypsy be properly sized for each other.

Getting pics on here is a nightmare for me, but
I'll try it when I get back to the marina. How would I know if it's a combo? Also, the U bolt appears to be too large for the roller. Oh jeez, figuring this one out is going to be difficult.

 

[BruceK]

Getting pics on here is a nightmare for me, but
I'll try it when I get back to the marina. How would I know if it's a combo? Also, the U bolt appears to be too large for the roller. Oh jeez, figuring this one out is going to be difficult.

"Combo" means the rode is partly chain and partly rope. That "U-bolt" might be a shackle connecting the anchor to the chain.
Best post some pics. There are threads to help you do it. If I can do it,and I`m an IT dino,you can.

 

[HopCar]

Yo, Parks

What's up with your old boat and "new" boat... now?? Last photo I saw your boat was unfortunately too well "anchored" on the bottom. Best lick in your doings!

Art

Hi Art, insurance company now owns Possum and I'm taking my time to decide how to replace her.

Now back to windlass comments.