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Old 08-11-2010, 12:14 AM   #121
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Dreadnaught anchor in the picture
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:29 AM   #122
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Apparently the terms "Navy," "Dreadnaught," and "stockless" are all used for the same basic anchor type.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:48 AM   #123
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

WEIGHT is always the key to good performance

Most anchors are simple cheap castings or weldments of sheet steel, so usually the weight and size are related.

The aluminum Danforth knockoff, IF of large surface area is a fine unit.

We use a break down aluminum knock off on our 33ft 90/90 as a storm anchor.Sized as if it were a 60 lb Danforth.

Simple and easy to carry under a bunk , and easy to hump on deck and assemble.

AS storm gear it gets its own HD Rode and lead chain.

The concept we cruise with is really simple , a every day thunder storm can easily blow 60K .

So the overnight cruising gear should be able to work well in any thunderstorm.

On the 33 ft boat this is a 35H Danforth ,or 45 CQR.

On the 50 ft lobster hull it is a 60 Danforth or 60 CQR or 60 Bruce , two are on the bow roller , one is on deck ,lashed , ready to bend on.

The lobster style is very low windage as it will pass under 10.5 ft fixed bridges,

but the owner of a 3 story apartment with Oxygen tent perched on top would need larger , much larger ground tackle.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:21 AM   #124
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Allan,Thanks. That's puzzling though. As I recall dreadnaught was a WW1 expression (or well before) and I'd say there is unmistakable Danforth influence in the flukes. Also I'd say it's clearly related to the navy anchor. However the Danforth didn't appear until 1938. To me the most interesting aspect of it's design is the much wider fluke to shank angle. That can be clearly seen in my picture. That's supposed to be one of the sacred aspects of the Danforth. All the knock-offs copy it strictly. The fishermen like this Jules Vern looking piece of iron and say it works well. Even I wouldn't try that.
FF,
For sure it sounds like your'e well covered. It also sounds like you've got lots of Danforth experience. How much trouble do you have getting them to set. Do you have trouble on hard bottoms, weed bottoms ect? I don't but my experience is not as extensive as yours
..most likely. I agree weight is important but only to the extent that the design is dependent on weight. Don't forget your'e using a "lightweight" anchor most of the time.
Your Danforth's probably have forged shanks and double flanged forged flukes * * yes?
Marin,
Stockless anchors like the navy and that little toy you linked don't have a stock. Here is a navy anchor on a yacht visiting in Craig. And yes the dreadnaught, the navy and the Rocna are stockless anchors while the Danforth, Northill and kedge's employ stocks. They make it sound like they are related but other than the stockless aspect I think not. The Northill is clearly related to the kedge, the Danforth is clearly related to the navy but the kedge and the Danforth don't seem related at all.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:51 AM   #125
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Everyone talks about the advantage of additional weight as the key to successful anchoring.* It's never made any sense to me, except for Marin's example of using a Cat D10 chassis; I'd go for one of those!* Our boat, fully loaded with fuel, water, and all our stuff, weighs about 45,000 pounds.* What difference does it make whether your anchor weighs 44 pounds or 72 pounds, or what ever?* If it's a poor design and poorly set and*your boat weighs 45,000 pounds it will drag.* Even if the anchor weighs 200 pounds, it will drag.* It's all in the design, how it penetrates the subsurface, type of rode, length of scope, and how it's set.

My two cents worth after reading numerous threads on this subject through the years.

Ray

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 10:53:13 AM
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:53 AM   #126
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*

Must be a bunch of sheep up there. Your'e the leader of the pack right? Dude * *..



-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 10th of August 2010 09:19:01 PM
I may be.
*I noticed a boat with a Bruce*/ Claw that the bow roller had a rounded heavy guage wire about the thickness of a pencil welded to the bottom of the roller. The hoop fitted securley in the middle of the center*fluke on the Bruce. looked to be factory made. *A great idea.**That anchor would not budge on the roller. Always a concern. I hate it when the darn thing rattles around on the bow. I have even had it jump out of the roller in heavy weather. Fall *off one to many 8 footer. If it ain't tied down it's gonna move.

So how do you secure your anchor in the bow roller?

SD*

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 11:54:54 AM
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:06 PM   #127
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*
As I recall dreadnaught was a WW1 expression (or well before)
FWIW, the term "dreadnought" which came to mean "battleship" originated with the HMS Dreadnought (see photo) which was the first all-big-gun ship which defined battleships until WWII when aircraft became a factor in ship defense and necessitated the installation of smaller anti-aircraft batteries.* The HMS Dreadnought entered service in 1906 and revolutionized naval warfare and strategy.* Dreadnoughts were the nuclear weapons of their day and it was the arms race in dreadnoughts between England and Germany*that was partially responsible for the outbreak of WWI.

Anyone interested in this topic would do well to read the outstanding book, "Castles of Steel: Britain, Germany, and the Winning of the Great War at Sea" by Robert K. Massie.**It and its companion book, "Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War" are two of the best*books on any historical topic I've ever read.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 06:10:28 PM
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:05 PM   #128
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

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skipperdude wrote:


So how do you secure your anchor in the bow roller?
Grand Banks boats have a "bail" or keeper mounted*on the front of the pulpit.* This is an arch of metal--- bronze on the older boats, probably stainless on the newer ones--- that goes over the top of the anchor.* It's hard to see in the attached photo but*it's visible behind the stainless bow rail stanchion.

I have to make a new one if I can find the same size bronze strapping because the stock keeper prevents the Rocna's shank from lying down in the pulpit channel. I used to think the Rocna balanced this way for easy deployment but on closer examination I found I was wrong, and that our shank is being held up in the air by the keeper.* (However it does make the Rocna easy to deploy---*start letting out the chain and over it goes.* No need to reach out and*shove it.)*

I can't remove the original*keeper without taking the whole pulpit apart, so my plan is to (eventually) make a new, taller keeper and cut the old one off leaving two short legs on either side that I can bolt the new one to.* Assuming I can get the right size metal, it should look like the factory did it when it's done.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 06:11:25 PM
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:31 PM   #129
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

The bow roller I was refering had just that,* the bail on top and bottom.
Ingenious.* It snugged the bruce like a cleat. I will try to get a pic this weekend.
*
I have a long trip planned to Latouche Island.
70miles eachway Found a Halibut hole there.
*I go*to fill the freezer every August.
*Last year*I took a 110 lb flat fish Some ling cod
And a few black sea bass. Not to mention the Shrimp in Icy bay.

SD***
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:13 PM   #130
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Marin,Good history! Love the picture. How do you insert a link and make it clickable???
I see you can do it * * ..I CAN"T. Is it your Firefox? I still haven't transfered my stuff over to my i-Mac. Did you see the 3 anchor test * * ... prolly not as you would need to copy each character.
Giggitoni,
There are a lot of elements to the science of anchoring. Judgement, guestamations like estimating distances, drift ect. The question was "what anchor" but we always go astray of subject. What is your anchor and what do you like about it? Would you feel any more secure if it was larger and/or heavier?
Dude,
Anchor storage? I keep my Danforth on the foredeck and stow the others in the hold.
My Danforth anchor chocks has a finger screw that clamps onto the top of the shank thus locking in place the anchor.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:42 PM   #131
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
Good history! Love the picture. How do you insert a link and make it clickable???
I open the picture from the web page it's on and do a "Save As."* This saves the photo (in whatever size it happens to be) to my computer.* If the photo is a*bmp or something other than a jpeg I open it in Photoshop and convert it to a jpeg.* Then I can attach it to a post to the forum in the normal way.

*
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:34 AM   #132
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

That's a good tip re transfering a pic from website Marin, but not quite what Eric asked. Eric, to make live links, you copy the URL = the www.whatever, then when in the Advanced Editor (not the quick reply) edit window and at the place where you want to place the link, go up and click on the link icon, (just under the U), then paste the copied URL into the box which comes up, and then click enter, or whatever it says to do - can't remember exactly, and not sure what's wrong tonight, but when I went to do exactly the above, the link icons is greyed out.* But normally that plonks the URL there in blue with a line under it and that signifies it is 'live'.* Now to figure out what I did wrong.* Maybe not holding tongue in right place.

Her Marin, on the subject of your bow roller and the loop.* Why not leave it just as it is?* It is horizontal, cetainly won't bounce around, and there is no law says the shank has to lie down in the pulpit channel?* It looks fine how it is.* Most of those self-launching anchors don't lie right down - my SARCA doesn't either, and I have a removable bolt/roller arrangement which sits above the shank to stop it bucking about or out.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:57 AM   #133
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:How do you insert a link and make it clickable???
Eric:

If I see a site I'd like to share with the forum, I "bookmark it". Then, when typing a post, I pull down the "bookmark" menu and drag that "bookmark" to my post.

Example:* Profile head sonsors


Walt
*




*
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:32 AM   #134
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Thanks very much both of you. I think that's the problem Peter, both my link icons are greyed out all the time. I'm sure I've used those link icons on other forums as I have made live links before (using those links?) I'll bet I was on the old computer then. perhaps I'll go start it up and see. Well I see Walt's post there but on all the posts there is no "Reply" icons at all. Weird. Walt * * ..good * *..perhaps that's the way I did it in the past. I tried it and my bookmark went "poofh" complete w a little dust cloud. I'm using Safri. I was on Foxfire on the old computer and wonder if that could have something to do w the greyed out link icon. Walt, what kind of computer do you have?Her's another bookmark try.
More dust.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 13th of August 2010 09:38:49 AM
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:19 AM   #135
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Eric--- I thought you were asking how to post a photo that was on a web page like the HMS Dreadnought picture.* For posting a live link, I just copy the link out of the Firefox address window and past it into my post where I want it.

I use a Mac at home (PC at work) and have found that Safari doesn't do some of the things that Firefox does. So I switched to using Firefox a long time ago and have had no problem with playing YouTube videos, posting photos, links, etc. since then. These are some of the things that Safari--- which came with my Mac--- can be reluctant to do.

Peter--- I want to raise the pulpit keeper because the way it is now, it's wearing the galvanizing off the upper corners of the shank where they contact the inside of the keeper. Not a big deal but annoying nevertheless.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 13th of August 2010 11:23:44 AM
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:42 PM   #136
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Quote:
Marin wrote:So I switched to using Firefox a long time ago and have had no problem with playing YouTube videos, posting photos, links, etc. since then.
Ditto!

*
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:21 PM   #137
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Hi all,I don't have much time for computer stuff now as the weather is 75 degrees and not a cloud in the sky so we're scraping, painting, covering blisters w epoxy and doing all the things that's better to do when on the hard. May be several years before we do this again.
Chris is doing painting and I am scraping the bottom (2days) even w some help. Bottom sanding and tomorrow grinding and epoxy.
I briefly talked w my step daughter this morning and she promptly said "hyper links".
Says she'll show me the ropes.
Getting back to anchors I measured that hydraulic winch and it's over 24" long. That dosn't leave me w much room on the foredeck. I should have a smaller one that has a direct drive hyd motor like Dude's. I may use it anyway but so much on the plate this fall I know it'll be some time before I get into it. With this winch I really was considering using a 55lb Manson Ray anchor. That's why I wanted you guys to read this anchor test:


http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...or%20Tests.pdf


It's a test with anchors weighing over 100lbs in Chile with difficult anchoring conditions.
I'll try not to give you anymore "dead" links.




-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 13th of August 2010 08:34:06 PM
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:00 PM   #138
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Here's your link brought back from the dead.

*
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:58 AM   #139
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Well, I also use Mac and Firefox and the hyperlink icons are still greyed out in the advanced editor, so it's not that Eric et al.
I guess I'll just do what Marin does & copy>>paste out of the Firefox address window to make live links.* Have you tried that Eric?* Let's see if I can make that work?
http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-an...on-anchors.php

Yes, that worked, and it then also lit up the link icons, so tried another below, and find just copying and pasting in does not make it 'live', you still have to transfer it to the link box when the icon lights up, and follow the process below, to make it live.....

http://www.anchorright.com.au/

Ahah.* That's the way Eric.* Copy the URL into the edit box, highlight and copy it, and that lights up the link icon, then click on that, then paste the URL into the URL box, then you have to select the target window, usually the same, (from the drop-down menu), then you have to give it a title as well, or it still does not seem to work, then click on the insert button (which in Firefox is partly obscured on my MacBook), but the other one next to it is clearly 'cancel', so not that one, obviously.


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 14th of August 2010 04:10:16 AM
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:17 AM   #140
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Marin wrote.....
Peter--- I want to raise the pulpit keeper because the way it is now, it's wearing the galvanizing off the upper corners of the shank where they contact the inside of the keeper. Not a big deal but annoying nevertheless.

Marin, for an el cheapo solution for now, what about just wrapping several layers of the self-adhering rubberised plumbing leak-fixing tape stuff round it? Cheap as chips and easy to replace/add more wraps etc - would really keep it quiet. My bolt doing the same job has a nylon roller, but the above would do as well.
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