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Old 07-24-2010, 11:21 PM   #81
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

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nomadwilly wrote:I discovered something disturbing today. I went shopping for a winch and found that almost all the winches are for the gypsy-splice combination rode. Looks like one either goes all chain or combo with the splice. I wanted to hand pull the line, wrap the chain around the gypsy and winch up the chain and anchor. Perhaps I'll be stuck w the reel type winches the fishermen use.Eric Henning

Eric, delighted you are seriously looking at winches.* I know they are not cheap, but they last virtually forever if maintained even half way well.* However puzzled by your comment above.* There are gypsys which will handle combined chain, rope rode, as you say, so why would that not work for you.* However, if worried (possibly unnecessarily), by the doubt re integrity of that rope/chain splice, and you preferred to use the thimble splice for the rope to chain join Marin suggested was stronger - and assuming we have yet to convince you of the benefit and simplicity of all-chain), then I see no reason why you could not haul up the rope rode on that side of the winch, assuming one purchased one with the dual set-up, then move the chain over to the chain side of the gypsy to complete the haul, using a foot triggered switch, so you could stand there to do all this, of course.
My winch has a horizontal shaft with rope gypsy on the left and chain on the right.* It would certainly be do-able to use as described, however, as I have all-chain I have no personal experience of doing it and don't intend to.* However, I don't anchor in the depths you sometimes do, so in that situation I can see the point of a combined rode to save some weight, but please make sure you have 30 ft of chain if possible - the length of the boat is the rule of thumb here.
The pic below shows my set-up, and I'm sure you can see how it would go.* A rope/chain locker with a big opening lid would probably make it easier than having rope on* the deck and then trying to guide the chain down a hawse hole, I would think.* What sort of bow locker set-up do you have?
Happy anchoring.* You certainly have/are experiencing all aspects of it.*

*
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:03 AM   #82
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Nomadwilly - Scout was repowered to Kubota. Original engine was a Pathfinder.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:26 PM   #83
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Chip/Anode, * * ..see my Face Book Page.

Peter B,
Oh yes I'm shopping for a winch but it's implementation may be a ways off.
My 3 anchors w the 10' 3/8" chain I'm quite sure will get me by this summer. Toooo
many things on the burner * *..typ summer in Alaska.
I've been looking at winches for about $1000 and all seem to be for the gypsy splice.
With your windlass I could pull the line up to the chain and then drape the chain over the gypsy and finish the job but the new winches in my price range are designed to dump the rode through the deck to the locker. I keep my rode on deck after we stunk up our whole fore-cabin of our pervious boat w mud and stuff on the anchor rode. On the Willard the chain locker is open to the bunk area like the Albin. If my chain turns my anchors into performers I'll probably get the little drum winch from West Marine for $425 and hand pull the last 10' of rode by hand. However I may go the all chain route but I'd need to build a platform to mount the windlass 8" or so above the fore-deck so as the chain is dumped on the deck I can pull it up and deposit it in the anchor rode box on deck. With the chain I'll need a heavier rode box too. Chain will bring up a lot more mud and stuff and maybe I'll need a wash-down pump as well. Too much to deal with now. But if I did the best anchor rode stunt it would be the reel winch that all the fishermen use (see the anchor pics). I know where there is one used but the last time I saw a price on it it was way high. During the week I'll search for a new one w electric motor drive or consider hydraulic as all the fishermen have. I like your winch Peter * *.. perhaps I could find one used. Lots of options.
Take a look at Anode's pictures and see all the work he's done.


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Old 07-26-2010, 02:04 AM   #84
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Eric, I think I understand where you are coming from now, and yes, everything is a compromise unless money is no object - not the case for most of us, and for those few where that's the case, I doubt they really get anything like the fun we mere mortals get out of doing it all the hard way....stre.....tching the budget as far as we can, saving hard....then finally obtaining that much sought after item....
So go with what works best for you, and good luck with that.....and I hope you can lay your hands on a second hand winch like mine, because it would be ideal for your situation.
Yes, Anode has done a great job on his boat - looks a treat.

-- Edited by Peter B on Monday 26th of July 2010 02:05:28 AM
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:50 AM   #85
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

I may need to head for the west coast tomorrow.*I read a bunch of those anchor tests last night and many seem to some kind of advertisement but I think I learned a couple of things. One of the tests was of only 3 anchors * *..Rocna, Manson Supreme and Manson Ray (a Bruce type). I always thought the Bruce was a poor short scoper and had to a great extent bought into Marin's Bruceatude but in this test the Ray did really well. I guess the largest yacht in the world has a Ray. The Ray set consistently at extremely short scope and even without any chain at all. It would seem to be my perfect anchor but I remember the XYZ. And even w no chain I'd need a winch as I'd be inclined to the 44lb w 10 or 15' of heavy chain.
Also I may have figured out why my Danforth worked so well at short scope. The shank is free to move independently from the flukes up to 32 degrees. 45 degrees would be 1-1 scope * *..right? Well 32 degrees must be extremely close if not exactly 2-1. So at 2.5 to one scope there would be absolutely no force from the shank to unload the fluke tips or pitch the flukes up and out of the bottom (even when the rode is perfectly straight) so 100% of the weight of the fluke tips that is applied to the bottom at 10-1 is applied at 2.5-1. Remember the word on the dock has been that the Bruce was good but the knock-offs weren't? Well it looks like it may have some merit and quite likely may apply to Danforth types as well since some perform well and others very poorly.


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Old 07-27-2010, 04:21 AM   #86
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

"even w no chain
Also I may have figured out why my Danforth worked so well at short scope."

From WWII till the mid 60's the Danforth was not considered to NEED a chain lead.

Only when the competition of advertising D got into really tiny flyweights did the "need" for extra weight become necessary.
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Old 07-27-2010, 06:29 AM   #87
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

What size anchor are most of you all running on your trawlers (in the 36' range)? The boat we are buying this week has a severely undersized danforth style anchor. I want to switch to a plough style anchor...thinking a 35lb would be adequate but maybe jumping up to a 44lb wouldn't hurt? We've got a windlass and all chain rode. Maybe 35lb is enough?
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:23 PM   #88
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

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nomadwilly wrote:


You say a roll bar anchor sets faster * * * ....... HOW. I see every reason the Danforth should set faster but it's your claim so tell us why
A rollbar POTENTIALLY sets faster because of the way the fluke or blade if you will is forced to slice sideways into the bottom as soon as you start pulling on it.* I wouldn't say ( and shouldn't have said if I did) that a rollbar ALWAYS sets faster.* But where a Danforth, Bruce, or even a plow might slide or skip across a bottom it's having trouble penetrating the sharp point on a rollbar anchor it pivoted hard like a knife blade*into the bottom which pretty much immediatly stops its forward motion and it begins digging in.

Every bottom has different characteristics so every anchor will act differently in different situations.* But in general, the rollbar anchors' design gives them an advantage over the more tranditional designs.

While the anchoring demos in the various videos are not actual "anchoring a boat" situations, they do replicate to a decent degree what the anchor will do in that type of bottom.* The fact they illustrate the behavior of a number of different types of anchors gives--- I believe--- a reasonable comparison of how those different*anchors behave in that particular situation.* So there is some value in the demos.* Moreso than if the manufacturer had simply demonstrated his own anchor with no comparison to any others.

As to your Danforth, I had thought I remembered your saying that on some occasions it took awhile before you got the Danforth to set.* I eventually always did, but not always right away.* But I may have misremembered that.

*
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:26 PM   #89
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

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Woodsong wrote:

What size anchor are most of you all running on your trawlers (in the 36' range)?
Weight is not the only consideration.* Design plays a major role, too.* For example a Fortress anchor sized for your boat may only weigh 20 pounds, or maybe even less, but if used in the bottoms that its most suited for, it will hold better than other anchors two or even three times as heavy.

We use a 44# Rocna on our GB36.* We used to have a 33# Bruce, which is the most common size Bruce*used on this particular boat in this area (PNW).* While I no longer think a Bruce is a viable anchor design, if someone was bound and determined to use one on their 36' trawler I would recommend AT LEAST 44# and probably even heavier if their pulpit, windlass, etc. can accomodate it.

*
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:43 PM   #90
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

In my Monk 36 I have a 45 lb Delta and 5/16 chain on the Lofrans Tigres, and an FX23 Fortress 6' Chain and 200' 5/8 nylon rode on stand by. A 35 lb Delta and 33Lb Bruce are secured in the lazarette both more for ballast, the boat is bow down a bit, than for anything else, they will be replaced by lead ingots soon.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:01 AM   #91
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Update,I anchored twice on my way to Craig.
1st night.
I tried another experiment w the XYZ * *..failed to set. I have one more experiment coming up. I used the Manson Supreme w 10' of 3/8 chain (heavy for my boat). The set was mushy and inconclusive in 70' of water w 200' of rode out (3-1). I'm developing a dislike for anchors that work (or for me mostly don't work) on their side. I went w it for the night.
2nd night.
Anchored in a huge anchorage in 20' of water. I was fed up w all my other anchors so just let go w the old Danforth and the 10' of 3/8 chain. It was to blow a bit that night so I set the anchor hard from the stern at half throttle in fwd gear. She rode fine of course but in the morning I pulled the anchor up w a considerable effort (needed a verticle rode and more than a bit of reverse gear) and got the smellyist, ugliest black and stickeyist black and smellyist mud I have ever seen. Took almost 1/2 hour to clean the anchor up sufficiently to bring it aboard. Later in the day the smell was still strong and I realized I had a small blob of the "stuff" on my shirt. So much for the perfect anchorage.






-- Edited by nomadwilly on Wednesday 4th of August 2010 12:05:13 AM
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:06 AM   #92
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Took almost 1/2 hour to clean the anchor up sufficiently to bring it aboard.

Carry it in a hawse hole , and let mother nature , and gravity take care of the mess.

Or get a REAL (25-40A ) seawater washdown pump and blast away!
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:37 AM   #93
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

FF,Yea * *..that would have been great but * *..more stuff to buy! *.. and install. I've posted this picture before but it's a good example and while were at it * * ...look at that beautiful boat.
The guy is a regular here at Craig and I've seen him 500 miles down the coast too. He had us aboard a few years ago to see his Nobletec chart plotter and other stuff. I wouldn't have the boat though * *..can't see from the lower helm and I sure wouldn't want to be way up there in the flying wheelhouse.
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:39 AM   #94
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Eric, can I ask why you seem to anchor in such deep water? Surely you can find sheltered places where you can get in closer, or are you cruising in the US equivalent of Fiordland. I admit where I usually cruise anchorages deeper than 6 metres are rare, here in Moreton Bay, off Brisbane, but in most coastal bays one can usually get in to a place where you can anchor in about 10 - 12 metres, ie ~ 40 feet in your units, without being too close to shore in case of wind shift. Don't you have any bays like that in your region, or are you so concerned about the old lee shore bogey you like to see the beach in the dim distance? Sorry if this seems to be a silly question, but I seldom hear of other people having many occasions to anchor in such deep water.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:53 AM   #95
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Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Hi Peter,When folks come up here for cruising and ask me what the most difficult part of cruising SE Alaskan waters is I always say "finding good anchorages". And the slower the boat the bigger the problem. I cruise at 6.15 knots. I'd like to send you some charts in explanation.
Deep is not really a problem. It's limited swinging room AND deep. I do seem to find such places don't I? At Blashky Is. I was within very easy rock throwing distance of the beach at mid tide as the wind changed during the night so I don't think the "lee shore bogey" would apply. Our 23' tides don't help anchoring either. I thought I'd (as they say) died and gone to heaven when I found an anchorage w almost unlimited swinging room and a flat 20'
bottom * * ..until I caught the mud. By the way I probably would have been better off w the SARCA anchor. The deepest I've ever anchored in was 85' and that was to avoid a VERY crowded (and small) anchorage w crazy small swinging room. Where is "Fiordland"? I thought it was here. You must be talking about Norway.
I read your other post * *...RUBBISH? * .. I'm fine w that from you Peter. Here is a picture of that anchorage I stayed at where I anchored in 70' of water. Where I was where the pic was taken it was 125' deep. I anchored in the end of the channel in 70' but I needed to scope the whole place as 1/3 into the end (from the east (right)) there was an underwater mount where the water was 20' deep on the spike and 70' deep 80' to the west (left) of the spike. Wouldn't want to find myself high and dry on top of that spike in the morning * * *...or in the middle of the night!


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 5th of August 2010 10:28:26 AM
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:25 AM   #96
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Little swing room and DEEP! is usually controlled with either an installed second weight or a rode rider , to lower the extra weight , and make it easier to recover.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:57 AM   #97
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

You show some lovely spots Eric, but I can also see you have to anchor in some mongrel places. Fiordland is in my land of birth at the bottom of the western side of the South Island of New Zealand. Google Map it. Lovely scenery - huge rainfall tho, surface of fresh on salt water makes it look almost black most times, but deep as buggerie as well - deeper even than most of where you go I'd think. You just can't anchor most places, you tie to trees on the edge. I can certainly see why you would go for the chain nylon set-up, and yes, the drum type winch probably handles that best for that much footage. Best of luck with that project. Keep us posted. My Lotus is coming out for anti-foul, and...finally I'm taking the plunge and having the hull re-sprayed with 2 pack Perfection, in a couple of weeks. I hope that will get rid of the yellowing under the bow you referred to, as she has it too - at least for a while. Then I can post a new ****e and briney avatar pic.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:23 AM   #98
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Right now I'm anchored in 57 feet of water in the PNW with a* 15 foot tidal range. As Eric says, this is not uncommon for this neck of the woods. My "deemed" max depth *is about 70 feet*at high tide with an all chain rode and a two to five* scope ratio dependent upon wind.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:02 PM   #99
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

Hi Tom and Jan,Where on earth are you kids ?? 5-1 rode at 70' deep?? You've got out 350' of chain?
Glad your'e still having fun * * ...you are still having fun aren't you? I remember on trips south when one gets to Queen Charlotte Strait one's mission is to get home.
Ran the Willy over to Craig earlier this week and as of 4hrs ago she's on the hard. A good time to get rid of those unsightly brown stains and thanks to you I'll have no problem w that. Friday the sun quit and it poured. It's back to mist, showers, drizzle and rain. But the air is heavenly, it's not windy, too bright or sweaty hot. I love it!
Nice to hear from you.


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Old 08-08-2010, 03:18 AM   #100
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RE: Choosing the Right Anchor for Your Trawler

You guys have an anchor called a Bullwagga in the US
Has anyone tried one??
I had one on my last boat and have kept it for this one even though it is one size smaller
It is the best anchor I have ever used however the bloke who made them is no longer in business mores the pity as I would have one for this boat if I could.

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