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Old 09-27-2014, 06:07 PM   #521
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Its my understanding that the roll bar is there to insure the proper orientation of the anchor to the bottom. The Spade and ultra do the same with weight and hollow shanks. Either way you get the point. The point that is supposed to dig in.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:50 PM   #522
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In post #456 I mentioned a boat that goes to SE Alaska every year w an average sized Navy anchor.

He came back a few days ago and I took these pics today. The yard put him next to us but we'll be out of there in a week or two.

I mentioned the anchor to him about 10 years ago but can't remember his response. So here's one boater that seems to do fine w a very dated anchor that most of us probably wouldn't even consider.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:58 PM   #523
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In post #456 I mentioned a boat that goes to SE Alaska every year w an average sized Navy anchor.

He came back a few days ago and I took these pics today. The yard put him next to us but we'll be out of there in a week or two.

I mentioned the anchor to him about 10 years ago but can't remember his response. So here's one boater that seems to do fine w a very dated anchor that most of us probably wouldn't even consider.
Does he anchor often? And, in what kind of bottom did he anchor in?
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:16 PM   #524
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Been enjoying following this. These anchor stousches are always fun. However, as a small but important point of order, which even the man himself appears to have missed, psneeld actually said, (among other things…Marin, I think it was you who misquoted him)...

"I have NOT heard an alarming number of people saying roll bar anchors clog...what I hear is more people are using nexgen anchors than ever before and are perfectly satisfied by them."
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:42 PM   #525
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Most people when they need a new anchor need it NOW! A large number of the same type of modern anchor is a sure guarantee that the nearest chandler is a stockist of that brand, go to another marina with a nearby chandler stocking a different brand - and guess where the focus lies. A better measure of an anchor's reputation might be to look at the numbers of modern anchors on the bows of vessels not stocked locally. These latter buyers have made a conscious decision to not go with convenience and this might be a better indication.

Edit: One example might be the numbers who buy an Ultra or Spade, neither are cheap and it seems unlikely you buy them if they do not work (accepting that some buy the Ultra because its absolutely gorgeous (when new)). An extreme example are the numbers in America and Europe who appear to go out of their way to buy something from Anchor Right. You do not do this simply because you like Australians (nice though they may be).
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:57 PM   #526
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PeterB,
Seen a lot of pictures of them clogged.
Mostly Supremes though.
And don't recall pics of clogged SARCA's.
How could they not clog?
Look at their shape.

Eyschulman wrote,
"The Spade and ultra do the same with weight and hollow shanks. Either way you get the point. The point that is supposed to dig in."
But w the weighted tip the fluke dosn't have to drag a roll bar over it's head through the bottom to "dig in". The roll bar certainly dos'nt help penetration.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:59 PM   #527
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Djbangi, You've got it backward. Chandlers stock the anchor that people in the area ask for.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:41 AM   #528
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In the real world chandlers stock items that might be difficult to differentiate from others, but more importantly, make the highest profit - which is why they are full of cheap stuff (to them, the chandlers) from China.

Rocna's are made in China and have almost identical costs to a Delta or Mantus. You tell me the difference in price in your chandler and then tell me where that difference goes.

The idea of manufacture in China was always the cheaper cost, similar labour, same galvanising, same raw materials (comparing Mantus, Rocna, Delta) of production and I have nothing against that. However a Supreme carries NZ labour, environmental, social (pensions, health care) and raw material costs but the difference between the prices of the Rocna and Supreme, in our market, is not significant.

If the chandlers are not enjoying a bit of the pie - they are mad.
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Old 09-28-2014, 02:43 AM   #529
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Durango I'm not sure what you are saying. Any retail store has to stock what sells. The customers drive what the store stocks. The price that an item sells for is strongly driven these days by the Internet. It hard to sell anything for more than someone can buy it for on the first couple of pages of Google.
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Old 09-28-2014, 02:49 AM   #530
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So here's one boater that seems to do fine w a very dated anchor that most of us probably wouldn't even consider.
You may be interested in this photo I took recently of the same design of anchor working underwater:

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Old 09-28-2014, 03:00 AM   #531
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I agree with funangler. Same thing has occurred several times to myself. I generally put rode down back a little, put more and call it good. The anchor will reset itself. If a blow is coming up I will keep one of the radars warmed and spooled up so I can check position anytime.

I witnessed a friends boat drag one night in a blow at Sucia island. I had more weight on mine with a 32 and 38 Bayliner attached to me. He was 52. This same blow put a couple boats on a reef including a small CG boat. I was sure glad I had things spooled that night! Thusly I'm not very impressed with the "plow" type of anchors. To each his own though.
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:03 AM   #532
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Hopcar,

Maybe its different in America but if a chandler is offered consignment stock and margin of 100% and a similar product that he pays on 30days credit and can only make a margin of 30% - I wonder which he chooses.

Most people are simply not discerning, which is why chandlers are full of unbranded anchors.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:44 AM   #533
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I thought the recent thread that discussed snagging/and or losing an anchor pretty much indicated that most people hadn't lost anchors due to snagging.

So beyond the obvious people who may lose one on a trip (but still may wait till they find the anchor they want in a couple days safely tied to a dock)....most people I know, thoroughly studied anchors and bought ones they wanted even if it was a difficult process. Me, Marin, (Don) Moonstruck, and it sounds like more than a few others did NOT buy an anchor out of a poorly stocked chandlery because they needed it now.

And even if I had to on a trip...and it wasn't an anchor I really wanted...I'd probably look for a deal on an anchor I wanted and sell the "rush buy anchor" on craiglist (like the other 4 I sold cleaning out my boat and storage).

I would say people "inherit" anchors they either like or don't based on what came with their boat. Every serious cruiser I know was either happy with what came with the boat...or they thought about it and ordered what they wanted...no rush involved.

HopCar...get with the program and stock stuff you can't sell!!!!!!.......lot's of it so when I head to Florida in December, you'll be ready for your giant "Mid-Winter Clearance Sale" where everything is at giveaway prices because you can't sell them.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:58 AM   #534
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Thank goodness for the anchor inventors, where would you lot be when it comes to full on adrenalin hot flushers, Marin I am not going there, next time have a better look as you may find quite a few Super Sarca anchors hanging of your boats, 300lb- some good numbers have been steadily moving in your direction, next week we have another 6 large anchors heading to the oil spill booms in Canada.


Eric, all anchors I suppose can clog, when we origionally designed the Sarca it was a concave and clogged readily, after ongoing development and testing we ended up convex for reasons I have gone into before on this forum so many times, anyway without going through the whole shooting match again convex solved the problem, twenty two years longevity verses approx ten years Rocna –Manson Supreme, whets the brand again that’s clogging? Any way Eric you should have followed Marins Lead, how silly we are down here using a shovel backwards to dig, no wonder it wont clogg.


We are doing well and I am not to fused about throwing heaps at the U.S. market, if someone comes a long that is serious I think they wood do well given the amount of emails we receive re supply of our anchors, I have just sent a N0 five alloy Excel and a No five Galvanized excel to Mexico, both anchors to the same customer, yes we are known worldwide, not a bad effort given the onslaught of anchors from high profile companies.


Regards Rex.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:58 AM   #535
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I'd like to repeat two items mentioned before... and add number three:

1. As much or more importance than the actual anchor design it is the "correct" method used of setting said anchor (of any type) by the boat Captain at hand - that is the bottom line!

2. In different bottom conditions there can become need to use different anchor designs. This again comes back to boat Captain's "correct" method of anchoring. And, it may well be required for a boat to have more than one design of anchor... depending on how many different bottom conditions a boat often anchors.

3. Every anchor design/brand discussed in these posts are apparently good products. It is up to individual Captains to utilize anchor of their choice. Again, "correct" method used of setting said anchor (of any type) by the boat Captain at hand - is the bottom line!

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Old 09-28-2014, 10:20 AM   #536
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"Maybe its different in America but if a chandler is offered consignment stock and margin of 100% and a similar product that he pays on 30days credit and can only make a margin of 30% - I wonder which he chooses."

Wow, you're right! I'd take the free stuff every time! I wish it happened in the real world, but it doesn't. The few times I've been offered consignment merchandise, it doesn't sell. If the product was any good the manufacturer wouldn't be so desperate to get it on the shelf.

No anchor manufacturer has ever offered me anchors on consignment. I stock Fortress, Delta, Danforth, Claw and a few cheap anchors I buy from a local distributor. I own them all.

Rocna is after me to stock their anchors but so far they haven't offered any consignment anchors. I'll see how they sell at the Ft. Lauderdale boat show before I decide whether to stock them.

I'm still waiting for Rex to send me a free container load of his anchors.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:35 PM   #537
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Been enjoying following this. These anchor stousches are always fun. However, as a small but important point of order, which even the man himself appears to have missed, psneeld actually said, (among other things…Marin, I think it was you who misquoted him)..
Peter-- The quote I included in my post was from Djbangi in his post 501, not psneeld.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:40 PM   #538
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I see all this high tech high holding power anchor movement as nothing more than an extension of our present culture. High tech is in. It's moving so rapidly even the kids have a hard time keeping up. Last months stuff is just old and can't do anywhere near as much as what's new. It's the norm. Technology is advancing so fast and far that almost nobody expects what just came out. My new car is a small economy car that gets way over 30mpg but it has power .... even at 80mph. Who knows what will come next ... but few will be surprised.

Now within this high speed fast evolving tech culture (worldwide) we have trawler skippers and general boaters. Most of us are old and tech shock is like sticker shock on steroids. But a lot of this that's going on all around us has a strong effect on how we think and what we do. The force to get on the band wagon is even stronger for people who work in fast advancing high tech industries ... like Marin. Old people are usually left behind in the dust but the gap now is so great lots of us old people are saying "no, no I don't want the dust I wanna keep up and stay strong". So we buy new latest high tech super performing anchors .... and expect to be pleased beyond our greatest expectations. And to some extent we are.

But I think that's what's driving this anchor of the month mindset that abhors anything several years old. But the old things work just as well as they did when they were new and once you get beyond the hype that gap is much smaller than we think. And the bottom line for the anchor tests is to sell anchors so the tests will be orchestrated to maximize the apparent gap between the old and the new.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:40 PM   #539
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The roll bar certainly dos'nt help penetration.
Of course it does. That's the reason it's there. If it wasn't there the fluke would not end up in the correct position to knife into the bottom. You say you understand how a rollbar anchor works, but I'm not sure you really do. Watch the video on the Rocna website (if it's still there) and you'll see the principle behind the anchor's design.

No roll bar, no bottom penetration and no set.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #540
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Rex said--- Any way Eric you should have followed Marins Lead, how silly we are down here using a shovel backwards to dig, no wonder it wont clogg.
Rollbar clogging and fluke shape are two different topics. I don't know if rollbar anchors are susceptible to clogging their rollbar hoops or not. Ours never has and I suspect your anchor rarely, if ever, does either. Anyway, what difference does it make if it "clogs" or not? That's what washdown pumps are for, right?

The issue of convex vs. concave is purely physics or geometry or whatever science it is. A concave survace concentrates material--- be it mud, air, or dirt in a ditch-- by forcing it toward the center of the suface. In the case of an anchor, a concave fluke surface will concentrate the bottom material toward the center of the fluke, which will increase the fluke's resistance to the direction of pull. It's why the concave surface of a shovel picks up and holds more dirt than the convex side.

A convex surface sheds material.

In the case of an anchor, having a convex fluke may enable the anchor to come up clean(er). But... the only thing I care about with regards to an anchor is how well it holds once it's set. And by my way of thinking, a concave fluke surface is going to present more resistance to the direction of pull because of what it does with the bottom material than a convex surface, which, by its very nature, tends to shed material.

I'm not interested in how clean the anchor comes up because a previous owner put a monster AC washdown pump on the boat (25 gallons per minute). I am only interested in how well an anchor holds.

But I will say that if Peter Smith had not come up with his design, I would have bought yours even if I had to have it shipped over from Australia.
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