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Old 04-27-2016, 02:12 PM   #21
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An inexpensive double bridle that works very well. Credit Capt Pascal
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:15 PM   #22
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If you want a simple, reliable and inexpensive system you can try what I use. I have two 25' X 5/8" dock lines with the loop ends into a shackle that has the pin end through the chain hook and the lines through the rounded part. That's it. If one line lets go, the other is still intact. I never did understand the two lines to one pennant concept since if the pennant breaks the whole setup is toast.

Just saw the post above. That's my setup!
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:27 PM   #23
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If you want a simple, reliable and inexpensive system you can try what I use. I have two 25' X 5/8" dock lines with the loop ends into a shackle that has the pin end through the chain hook and the lines through the rounded part. That's it. If one line lets go, the other is still intact. I never did understand the two lines to one pennant concept since if the pennant breaks the whole setup is toast.

Just saw the post above. That's my setup!
Yeah, great point about the pendant. I am trying to avoid using a chain hook is all. I've used a hook in the past, but will try simply tying the pendant onto the chain rode.
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:52 PM   #24
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We use a double bridle made of 1/2in three strand nylon, woven through two rubber snubbers and attached to the chain with a snap shakle. The bridle is brought over the roller and attached to the chain and then lowered until there is a loop of chain. The main reason we use one is to eliminate the sound of the chain dragging the bottom all night. In 20 years of boating in Alaska there have only been a couple of times I've worried about the load on the windlass due to chain snatch, but the rubber dampened the strain just fine. Unless your in a very windy or rough anchorage, the loads on the windlass, even with all chain may not be as big a concern as you think.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:21 PM   #25
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His vessel is an HC. Seems that many relevant suggestions have sprung forth for his setup.

Now we're just raising personal stories, that is OK. My question pertaining to Jeff's point (that windlass will never pull out of a DeFever Jeff ), isn't a bridle that is designed for lighter wind stretch - designed for heavier wind breakage? Especially as the snubber ages or gets sun rotted.
Looking on line "HC" s seem to come in a variety of flavors, ground tackle deployment wise. Many of the posts here assume a pulpit, and a few of the pics I saw had no pulpit. When he said he could only reach the chain with a boat hook, that got my attention.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:30 PM   #26
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For the reason noted earlier, each leg of a bridle should be rated close to or at the size of rode you would be using in lieu of chain. The boat will definitely horse from one leg to the other, though my experience is that once the winds get to certain level of sportiness, the boat will usually blow back enough to use both legs.... through a little current or wind direction change in there , it will still horse.

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Old 04-27-2016, 07:00 PM   #27
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I agree with "both." I use a bridle and a chain stopper. As mentioned, the bridle is attached to the chain just after it goes over the roller - I can reach there from my bowsprit. Then the chain is lowered until the bridle takes the strain.

This past weekend I anchored in the Napa River. It's muddy and narrow and I was concerned about swinging into the mud. I this case I used neither a snubber nor a chain stopper. There was no surge in the river and very little strain on the windlass. However, I did want to be able to make adjustments quickly if needed without having to bother unhooking everything. It turned out to be useful - about 1am I ended up shortening scope to pull the boat off the mud. All from the pilothouse in my pyjamas!

Richard
Richard,

The Napa River can be tricky. Most places, especially with an ebb current, a cross current develops and swings the stern into the bank. The trick is to use a stern anchor as well as a bow anchor with minimal scope on each. Or, find the locations of the river that the current is parallel to the banks; both ebb and flow. I have found a few, by trial and error, mostly error!

Sorry for the side track....now back to it!
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:43 PM   #28
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Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:59 PM   #29
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Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
Exactly what we do, for exactly the same reasons, although we use a simple snap shackle which ensures the hook stays put.
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Old 04-29-2016, 10:43 PM   #30
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Shock loads

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
IMO, it's not an either/or, it's both. The chain stopper (or Samson post, or bitt, or whatever) takes the load off the windlass... but it doesn't do squat for shock loads. The bridle helps manage shock loads on the working end of the chain.

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Don't forget that the chain catinary provides most protection from shock.
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:22 PM   #31
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Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.
Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference.
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Old 04-29-2016, 11:32 PM   #32
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"Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference."

Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:30 AM   #33
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Just last week I spent Thursday night at Paradise Cove before heading up the Napa River. Winds were gusting to 30kt most of the night. Definitely had the snubber on for that night.

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Old 04-30-2016, 12:37 AM   #34
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This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.

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Old 04-30-2016, 06:43 AM   #35
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"Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC."

Koliver

Last September I was anchored outside your back door in Ganges and the wind came up cresting at gusts of 30 knots. Short scoped boats in this crowded anchorage were dragging and mating throughout the night.

At dawn the scene unfolded with mast and stay untangling struggles the routine for several hours. Damage was significant. The perps were all sailboats with light anchors and rope rodes showing at the bow.

Our suitably bridled Bruce did pretty good at a 5 to 1 scope but did drag about 40 feet. We were scope limited due to the other vessels around us. My wife's Christmas present was a heavier Vulcan. Mother's Day is coming up Koliver. I look forward to inspecting your new treat.
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Old 04-30-2016, 06:46 AM   #36
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Don't forget that the chain catinary provides most protection from shock.

Well, yes, that too... until it doesn't. And at that point, jerk loads can be great enough to pop a chain stopper right off the boat...

Hence chain stopper (and chain), plus bridle...

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Old 04-30-2016, 06:46 AM   #37
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This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.

30 knots? Pretty tame seas.
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:07 AM   #38
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30 knots? Pretty tame seas.
No - this picture wasn't from last Thursday. I said 20kts which is what I remember for that evening. May have been closer to 15 when the picture was taken - there were whitecaps at some point.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:01 AM   #39
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"The chain stopper pawl on the windlass is the back up (although pretty wimpy) and the secondary back up is the windlass itself. "

A true chain stopper is bolted to the deck with the ability to stand a load that will snap the chain.

Expensive to install properly ,is why its seldom found on production boats

The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.

Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.

A good snubber setup, can assist in removing all loads from a windlass.

A kellet ( anchor rode weight) works even better , but takes more effort to deploy.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:51 PM   #40
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The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.

Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.
This raised a question in my small brain. The windless should not be used as an anchor point. In my past boats, I always used a snubber with a chain hook to serve as the primary anchor point.

However, I always set the anchor without a snubber, using the windless to hold the anchor during the set. I'm sure I am not alone. What do y'all do?
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