Chain Hooks

[Martin J]

Just search for "anchor chain stopper" on ebay

 

[GGroves]

This one fits a 1/4 in chain.
ULTRA Chain Grab / Ultra Marine West

 

[Benthic2]

OP...could you just add a kellet to your current setup ??

 

[goboatnow]

I have used a couple of different chain hooks and they all tend to drop off unless you maintain tension on the line at all times.

Then I discovered soft shackles and they are awesome. Easy to connect and disconnect, and they will run over a bow roller without drama. They will never fall off, slack or not, and can easily thread through a chain link. And unlike a snap shackle that will fit through a chain link, they have a load rating equal or higher than the chain itself. It's among the best $30 I've ever spent.

TT, would you mind shooting out a link or pic of what you’re talking about? I’ve seen and used some soft shackles but not exactly sure how you’re using it.

Gracias

 

[Benthic2]

There's a picture in post #18

 

[Simi 60]

I have used a couple of different chain hooks and they all tend to drop off unless you maintain tension on the line at all times.
.

Never had our victory hook drop off in 2 years of anchoring every night.

https://victory-products.com/products/ch2304

We did in the early days when not using enough loop in the chain but with an extra couple of metres hanging problem sorted.

Added bonus is single handed retrieval from wheelhouse.
Hook drops off as soon as it touches the roller as chain is retrieved.

 

[diver dave]

What happens when there is steel all the way!

I don't remember if I told this story around here.
We had anchored up close to a fairly shallow wreck, up some miles North of Memory Rock on the Little Bahama Bank.
Some of us in the water, and the wind came up. My anchor at the time, was a 10kg Delta (plow type) with 90' (sorry, 30 meters) of 5/16" chain to the windlass. We had maybe 60' out in 15 feet of water (back to US units)

Wind came up a bit, and the next thing I know my boat was adrift. The swivel/shackle at the anchor broke. The anchor was in a great spot, under the hull of a million pound freighter! But, there was zero give in the system, so a bit of waves created a huge jerk on the chain. Had to swim down the boat, and then go back and retrieve the anchor.
Anyway, long story short, use a snubber!

 

[caltexflanc]

Soft shackles are really super, but I lack fine motor skills due to repercussions of a broken neck. I didn't want to klutzing through that up there on the bow. Plus the plate my buddy gave me worked great, as did a plain old rolling hitch before I got the bridle from him.

 

[BruceK]

...Wind came up a bit, and the next thing I know my boat was adrift. The swivel/shackle at the anchor broke.

Can you post a pic of the type of swivel/shackle? Is it the "anchor connector" ss streamlined looking type?

 

[MurrayM]

Can you post a pic of the type of swivel/shackle? Is it the "anchor connector" ss streamlined looking type?

My hunch is that it was stainless steel...they can apparently break without any outward indication that a problem exists

 

[FF]

"But, there was zero give in the system, so a bit of waves created a huge jerk on the chain."

Bar tight chain , becomes a BAR, no give at all.

One huge reason to use nylon .

 

[Delfin]

TT, would you mind shooting out a link or pic of what you’re talking about? I’ve seen and used some soft shackles but not exactly sure how you’re using it.

Gracias

Stronger than the chain, can't fall off, can't ding the boat, cheaper than a chain hook, you can easily make them yourself.

I can't find pictures of our setup, but we use a 30' snub line with a yachtsman thimble on the end that attaches to the chain via the soft shackle. Never had it come off and the shackle is the strongest point in the whole setup. It takes all of around 5 seconds to push the loop of the shackle through a chain link, then slip the loop over the knot. Done.

p.s. in the video, you can see the only fiddly bit is making the diamond knot. To tighten the knot, I just knot the two ends of the line together after making the knot to form a temporary loop, then lift the Whaler (850#) with it to tighten it up. Or, go to West Marine and buy one. A 3/8" Mantus chain hook has a WLL of 2215 # and costs $70. 10' of 1/4" Dyneema line cost $9 and as a soft shackle has a WLL in excess of 7,000#. Or buy one for $25 from West Marine.

 

[Delfin]

"But, there was zero give in the system, so a bit of waves created a huge jerk on the chain."

Bar tight chain , becomes a BAR, no give at all.

One huge reason to use nylon .

I not sure I can remember the formula, but from memory if you take a surge load and dissipate that load over a distance, the final force is reduced by the square of the distance traveled. Hit a brick wall with a 60's style car at 60 mph and you're dead. Hit it with a modern vehicle and the force is dissipated by design - crumple zones, the engine sliding down and under the car, an air bag deploying - all of this is designed to reduce the final force on your body of the initial energy. Same with a snub line. Stretchier the better, and 1,000# snatch load becomes a 100# snatch load once the chain is tight.

 

[diver dave]

My hunch is that it was stainless steel...they can apparently break without any outward indication that a problem exists

I forgot, it was maybe 7 years ago. I do know that SS bullet job; might have been. It also bent my windlass main shaft.

guys are bringing back baaad memories. Do you know what a vintage Simpson Lawrence shaft costs and the effort to find one?

 

[foggysail]

I don't remember if I told this story around here.
We had anchored up close to a fairly shallow wreck, up some miles North of Memory Rock on the Little Bahama Bank.
Some of us in the water, and the wind came up. My anchor at the time, was a 10kg Delta (plow type) with 90' (sorry, 30 meters) of 5/16" chain to the windlass. We had maybe 60' out in 15 feet of water (back to US units)

Wind came up a bit, and the next thing I know my boat was adrift. The swivel/shackle at the anchor broke. The anchor was in a great spot, under the hull of a million pound freighter! But, there was zero give in the system, so a bit of waves created a huge jerk on the chain. Had to swim down the boat, and then go back and retrieve the anchor.
Anyway, long story short, use a snubber!

How would a snubber prevent saving a drifting boat caused by a swivel at the anchor failure? I would suggest a better swivel rather than a snubber.

 

[MurrayM]

How would a snubber prevent saving a drifting boat caused by a swivel at the anchor failure? I would suggest a better swivel rather than a snubber.

Would have prevented shock loading at swivel when chain went tight...see Delfin's post above.

Same with a snub line. Stretchier the better, and 1,000# snatch load becomes a 100# snatch load once the chain is tight.

 

[Brooksie]

I have an all chain rode on one of my boats. It may make the anchor hold better and be less vulnerable to coral, but it makes me wonder sometimes if I could cut myself free quickly.
My sons and I sailed from Cape Cod to Trinadad and back, always anchoring out, with a nylon rode, without incident.
I also question the extra weight of chain and the necessary winch right in the bow of your 28' boat. There are also more personal dangers associated with chain and I would never let my children or grandchildren get involved with anchoring or weighing with a chain rode.

 

[Delfin]

I have an all chain rode on one of my boats. It may make the anchor hold better and be less vulnerable to coral, but it makes me wonder sometimes if I could cut myself free quickly.
My sons and I sailed from Cape Cod to Trinadad and back, always anchoring out, with a nylon rode, without incident.
I also question the extra weight of chain and the necessary winch right in the bow of your 28' boat. There are also more personal dangers associated with chain and I would never let my children or grandchildren get involved with anchoring or weighing with a chain rode.

How is chain more dangerous than nylon rode?

 

[foggysail]

Would have prevented shock loading at swivel when chain went tight...see Delfin's post above.

REALLY? If a swivel cannot withstand a shock load equal to that of the chain, it does not belong connected to the chain

 

[MurrayM]

REALLY? If a swivel cannot withstand a shock load equal to that of the chain, it does not belong connected to the chain

Hmmmm...

My hunch is that it was stainless steel...they can apparently break without any outward indication that a problem exists

 

[Panacea123]

I'm considering moving to an all chain rode. I have a small boat at 28' & 8,500lbs. I'm using a 25lb Manson Supreme with 30 ft. of 1/4" ss chain and 200' of 1/2" line now. I would like to move to 100ft. of 1/4" HT chain backed with line. I don't intend to typically get beyond the chain and into the anchor line at all, if possible.

I'm looking at chain hooks. It's difficult to find a 1/4" chain hook. What would you suggest for chain snubbing?

After years of messing with chain hooks, I finally just went with a rolling hitch,
Simple, free, and easy to get through the roller. Has never failed me and doesn’t wear the galvanized.

 

[diver dave]

Stronger than the chain, can't fall off, can't ding the boat, cheaper than a chain hook, you can easily make them yourself.

I can't find pictures of our setup, but we use a 30' snub line with a yachtsman thimble on the end that attaches to the chain via the soft shackle. Never had it come off and the shackle is the strongest point in the whole setup. It takes all of around 5 seconds to push the loop of the shackle through a chain link, then slip the loop over the knot. Done.

p.s. in the video, you can see the only fiddly bit is making the diamond knot. To tighten the knot, I just knot the two ends of the line together after making the knot to form a temporary loop, then lift the Whaler (850#) with it to tighten it up. Or, go to West Marine and buy one. A 3/8" Mantus chain hook has a WLL of 2215 # and costs $70. 10' of 1/4" Dyneema line cost $9 and as a soft shackle has a WLL in excess of 7,000#. Or buy one for $25 from West Marine.

That's a brilliant vid. I have to make one. But, what is "dyneema" line? Is that a trade name? Seems to be hollow braid kevlar or similar??

 

[Delfin]

That's a brilliant vid. I have to make one. But, what is "dyneema" line? Is that a trade name? Seems to be hollow braid kevlar or similar??

Amsteel, Dyneema, I am sure there are other brand names. And yes, it is hollow, and it might be Kevlar, I'm not sure. It is equivalent in breaking/working loads as the same size G4 chain.

All the cordage manufacturers make lines that have Dyneema or Amsteel wrapped with some other fiber, but what you want is just the plain vanilla hollow core, 12 strand (I think it is 12....)

FYI, it doesn't break down much exposed to sunlight, has zero stretch and is extremely abrasion resistant. It also floats, which is very nice. We use 300' of 5/16" as a stern line for tying off trees, rock etc. I crank it in using a stern windlass until it is about piano wire taut. Remarkable stuff, but naturally pricey.

Think of it as a pliable wire rope, except twice as strong as the equivalent wire rope diameter. So, if you would be comfortable using a 5/16" wire rope to tie ashore or lift a dinghy or attach a snub line, you can be twice as comfortable with Dyneema since it is twice as strong.

 

[Delfin]

REALLY? If a swivel cannot withstand a shock load equal to that of the chain, it does not belong connected to the chain

That might be true, but you really are missing the entire concept of what a snubber does.

For those looking for a swivel that is stronger than the chain it attaches to, the Ultra flip swivel is worth looking at. Preposterously expensive, but it works really well and is most certainly not the weakest link in my system. Mine is rated at 53,000 # breaking strength compared to #36,000 for the G4.

 

[Delfin]

After years of messing with chain hooks, I finally just went with a rolling hitch,
Simple, free, and easy to get through the roller. Has never failed me and doesn’t wear the galvanized.

As long as the 40% reduction in strength a rolling hitch results in doesn't bother you, then no problem.

 

[Panacea123]

Not sure about that (read i am uneducated)
5/8 line 15000 lb tensil strenth * 40% =6000 lbs?
What size snubber do you use?
Always looking for a better way.
Thanks for the input

 

[foggysail]

That might be true, but you really are missing the entire concept of what a snubber does.

For those looking for a swivel that is stronger than the chain it attaches to, the Ultra flip swivel is worth looking at. Preposterously expensive, but it works really well and is most certainly not the weakest link in my system. Mine is rated at 53,000 # breaking strength compared to #36,000 for the G4.

No, I understand the benefits snubbers provide but that has IMHO zero to do with weak swivel nor should a snubber be used to protect a swivel. My swivel is a big heavy one purchased from West Marine. That sucker is never going to come apart with my 40' Silverton tugging on 5/16"HT chain attached to the swivel and my 80# Manson Supreme.

 

[Delfin]

No, I understand the benefits snubbers provide but that has IMHO zero to do with weak swivel nor should a snubber be used to protect a swivel. My swivel is a big heavy one purchased from West Marine. That sucker is never going to come apart with my 40' Silverton tugging on 5/16"HT chain attached to the swivel and my 80# Manson Supreme.

A snubber protects the ground tackle by reducing shock loads on the entire system. It doesn't matter whether it is the swivel or the chain. You asked what benefit a snubber would have with a weak swivel. The answer is the swivel likely wouldn't have broken because the loads on it would have been significantly reduced. That isn't an argument for an undersized or poorly designed swivel. It is an argument for snub lines.

Just curious, but what swivel from West Marine are you using? When you say "HT" do you mean G7 or G4 or ?

 

[foggysail]

Wind came up a bit, and the next thing I know my boat was adrift. The swivel/shackle at the anchor broke. The anchor was in a great spot, under the hull of a million pound freighter! But, there was zero give in the system, so a bit of waves created a huge jerk on the chain. Had to swim down the boat, and then go back and retrieve the anchor.
Anyway, long story short, use a snubber!

A snubber protects the ground tackle by reducing shock loads on the entire system. It doesn't matter whether it is the swivel or the chain. You asked what benefit a snubber would have with a weak swivel. The answer is the swivel likely wouldn't have broken because the loads on it would have been significantly reduced. That isn't an argument for an undersized or poorly designed swivel. It is an argument for snub lines.

Just curious, but what swivel from West Marine are you using? When you say "HT" do you mean G7 or G4 or ?

This discussion was started by Diver Dave's comment that one should use a snubber to protect a swivel. It has nothing to do with other benefits snubbers provide. I maintain that a swivel should NOT be the weak link in anybody's ground tackle.

My chain is Acco's G4, 5/16", galvanized of course. My swivel? Heck the last time I saw it was prior to hauling time last October so I cannot related it from memory to what now is offered by West Marine. Years ago I had another heavy beast swivel that used a clevis pin which I had welded to prevent it from ever pulling out. Personally, I would not consider a SS swivel.

 

[Delfin]

Not sure about that (read i am uneducated)
5/8 line 15000 lb tensil strenth * 40% =6000 lbs?
What size snubber do you use?
Always looking for a better way.
Thanks for the input

When you tie a knot, it becomes the weak point. Climbers assume a 40% reduction in the breaking strength of ropes when they tie a clove hitch, a.k.a. rolling hitch.

Since the snub line doesn't need to be, and likely shouldn't be as strong as the chain since its purpose its to stretch, the reduction in strength likely shouldn't bother you.

Just one man's approach, but I sized my snubber to have equivalent strength as the chain - 3/4" octoplait nylon - but also to allow for 6' of stretch over 30' without breaking. There is a yachtsman thimble on one end, and I attach that to the chain with a soft shackle. I then lay out 6' of chain over the taut snub line. So, the first 9,000# (more or less) of force is dissipated with the stretch in the snub line, then after that the chain would have to take the load.

Not sure what kind of 5/8" line you are using. Most people would use nylon of some kind and 5/8" 3 strand has a breaking strength of 9,000#. That may be fine, but with the rolling hitch is really around 5400#.