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Old 06-11-2018, 06:49 PM   #41
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I've heard the overhand knot used but had not seen it. I don't suppose you have a photo of the shackle with the knot tightened up do you? It looks easy to make. I think I will give it a try. The only downside I see if that it would take more line and end up with a very large stopper knot.
My knots end up looking a bit like the Elephant Man's head, but from a functionality standpoint, they work fine, and this knot is self tightening, unlike some other options.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:17 PM   #42
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3/8 BBB - Rocna 55lb on Monk36

Interesting thread.

Running with 3/8 BBB with no swivel and a Rocna 55lb hooked to the earth’s mantel on a Monk38.

Can we agree that the chain is sufficiently strong?
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:27 PM   #43
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Interesting thread.

Running with 3/8 BBB with no swivel and a Rocna 55lb hooked to the earth’s mantel on a Monk38.

Can we agree that the chain is sufficiently strong?
Of course not. There can be no agreement on anchoring issues. It was part of what you agreed to when you created an account on TF, explained in the fine print:

You agree to argue endlessly on any issue related to anchoring, taking objection to any opinion, no matter how sensible or benign.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:53 PM   #44
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Of course not. There can be no agreement on anchoring issues. It was part of what you agreed to when you created an account on TF, explained in the fine print:

You agree to argue endlessly on any issue related to anchoring, taking objection to any opinion, no matter how sensible or benign.
That's telling him! What a muckracker!
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:10 PM   #45
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Yes, but the difference is many (most?) of these fishing boats have enormous hydraulic "reels" (?) for their anchors. Like the one pictured below. These would be out of place on your average trawler.

People here are discussing snubbers primarily to take the load off their windlass, which is not designed for abuse like their AK brethren. Second benefit seems to be some noise reduction.
Larger commercial craft often have robust chain stoppers not integral to the reel. These chain stoppers can be ropes, chains or bolts to accomplish the task of keeping undue strain off the reel setup. But some do nothing and let the reel take the beating if the deck attachment is stout enough.

But as Delfin notes, anchor and rode talk is not like death and taxes, it is more serious. I duly accept that.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:40 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
My knots end up looking a bit like the Elephant Man's head, but from a functionality standpoint, they work fine, and this knot is self tightening, unlike some other options.

Thanks. I will definitely try the overhand knot.


Typically for a bury splice with dyneema, you would use at least 10 x the diameter of the line for the bury length. In this application, since the loops at the end aren't really supporting a load, just keeping the knot closed, I would imagine you could use less of a bury.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:43 PM   #47
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Considering a single length of 1/2 in. Line attached to the chain with a rolling hitch knot to a Sampson post just aft of the windlass. Anyone ever have any issues with the rolling hitch coming through the bow roller and getting bound up?

I've never had that problem. I've switched to using an icicle hitch instead of the rolling hitch most of the time. It is a tad more time consuming to tie but there is no way it will come undone.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:02 PM   #48
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Thanks. I will definitely try the overhand knot.


Typically for a bury splice with dyneema, you would use at least 10 x the diameter of the line for the bury length. In this application, since the loops at the end aren't really supporting a load, just keeping the knot closed, I would imagine you could use less of a bury.
True, I just bury enough so that the knot is composed entirely of doubled line. I think the main advantages of this knot is the self tightening aspect of it and the fact that it is very easy to make up.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:11 PM   #49
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I've never had that problem. I've switched to using an icicle hitch instead of the rolling hitch most of the time. It is a tad more time consuming to tie but there is no way it will come undone.
Thanks Dave. Previous boat had a chain stop mounted on deck. Bought a fancy chain grab for the new boat and tried it this past weekend, and didn’t care for it. It can get very crowded in SoCal anchorages in the Summer, so a quick exit is sometimes required. Figured using a line directly to the chain as you initially called out would be best to remove rapidly. Longer term anchoring in less crowded areas I can always use a more secure bridal.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:24 PM   #50
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Thanks Dave. Previous boat had a chain stop mounted on deck. Bought a fancy chain grab for the new boat and tried it this past weekend, and didn’t care for it. It can get very crowded in SoCal anchorages in the Summer, so a quick exit is sometimes required. Figured using a line directly to the chain as you initially called out would be best to remove rapidly. Longer term anchoring in less crowded areas I can always use a more secure bridal.


Sounds good. FWIW, I’ve never had an issue with the rolling hitch coming loose on me.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:17 PM   #51
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We use a one inch nylon snub line about 30' long with a thimble in an eye splice on the end that has a chain hook shackled to it and secure the other end to a bow cleat, through a chock, not the anchor roller. We use firehose for chafe.
With a 55kg anchor, 3/8" chain is a serious mismatch if you anchor regularly. Your chain hasn't enough weight and you are putting undue stress on your snub and relying on your anchor only to hold you. If your snub were to break, obviously in less than ideal conditions, your chain would probably break too. The weight of the chain, not its strength, is what safe anchoring relies on.
I will not tie my snub to the chain for one very simple reason. If you need to get your gear up in a hurry, on some dark and stormy night, you are going to have to untie or cut that knot completely away before your chain will go through the gypsy. Under extremely adverse conditions, this could be a real problem. The chain hook slides easily off the chain at the roller or, if your roller is big enough, you can bring it inboard on the chain and slide it off. Just a second or two!
We have a 53', 77000# boat and have moved up to ˝" chain. Our 88# Rocna is a perfect match for this chain, The boat rides much better at anchor and we sleep much more securely since we've made the change.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:34 PM   #52
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I don't know anything about best but this is my set up on Klee Wyck.
The tails from the chain grabber to the loops are each 30 feet and are secured to the bollards (6 foot aft of bow both port and starboard) in the background of photo after attachment to the chain. The chain travels thru deck hause pipe and is coupled to 145# Forfjord (#12)on a 55K#, 48' boat. So far, so good, but never really been put to a serious test while in my hands.
It can be a bit testy getting the grabber coupled to the chain while hanging off the bow in any kind of seas......
This the exact set up we used with great success in literally hundreds of anchorings. I did try to avoid choosing an anchorage that was exposed to a lot of unprotected fetch so attaching and detaching were simple, and given our pulpit design never had to hang off the bow to do so anyway. It passed many serious tests in sustained gale force and more winds.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:58 PM   #53
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We use a one inch nylon snub line about 30' long with a thimble in an eye splice on the end that has a chain hook shackled to it and secure the other end to a bow cleat, through a chock, not the anchor roller. We use firehose for chafe.

Have you considered just splicing the chain hook directly on the 1” line? It would get rid of the eye and shackle. A splice around the eye would be stronger than to a chain hook, but probably not by a lot. When the line gets chaffed at the chain hook, cut it and resplice.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:19 PM   #54
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Have you considered just splicing the chain hook directly on the 1” line? It would get rid of the eye and shackle. A splice around the eye would be stronger than to a chain hook, but probably not by a lot. When the line gets chaffed at the chain hook, cut it and resplice.
Why in the world would I want to introduce a chafe point? Where is the value in elimiating the shackle and thimble only to have the snub line chafe through at a most inconvenient time? Thimbles were invented to reduce chafe between a line and what it is attached to.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:10 PM   #55
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Why in the world would I want to introduce a chafe point? Where is the value in elimiating the shackle and thimble only to have the snub line chafe through at a most inconvenient time? Thimbles were invented to reduce chafe between a line and what it is attached to.


You are correct or course, but it does allow to reduce the number of hard bits banging into stuff.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:49 AM   #56
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You are correct or course, but it does allow to reduce the number of hard bits banging into stuff.
Our "hard bits" have never touched the boat until after they are disconnected from the chain. Then one need only exercise due care to ensure that they don't do any damage.
If that isn't possible because of your bow's shape or anchoring system, then how about covering the shackle with some chafing gear, like a bit of hose or canvas sewn onto it?
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:27 AM   #57
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Our "hard bits" have never touched the boat until after they are disconnected from the chain. Then one need only exercise due care to ensure that they don't do any damage.
If that isn't possible because of your bow's shape or anchoring system, then how about covering the shackle with some chafing gear, like a bit of hose or canvas sewn onto it?

I’ve actually done that in two applications. The first was on my permanent dock lines where I used a soft shackles to attach the eye of a 3 strand line (with a thimble) to the dock cleats. I sewed on a webbing cover over the shackle. It provides chaffe protection as well as additional UV protection. The other place was on a dyneema dog bone that I have used to wrap around the chain and then attach my bridle to it with a soft shackle.

I wasn’t suggesting there was anything wrong with using a splice eye with thimble and a shackle, I was just curious if you had considered the other option. You had, and rejected it for good reasons.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:32 AM   #58
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Larger commercial craft often have robust chain stoppers not integral to the reel. These chain stoppers can be ropes, chains or bolts to accomplish the task of keeping undue strain off the reel setup. But some do nothing and let the reel take the beating if the deck attachment is stout enough.

But as Delfin notes, anchor and rode talk is not like death and taxes, it is more serious. I duly accept that.
I think the point sunchaser is making, and with which I agree, is that this issue is always subject to over-thinking, and a lot of navel gazing - way more that it deserves really. Having a decent anchor, appropriate rode, and some sort of snubber to take the strain at anchor off the winch is the guts of it.

Like the commercial guys sunchaser refers to, just use something that does the business. It is not rocket science. My snubber is probably shorter than most would use, and too thick to have enough stretch by most standards, but it will never break, and when attached to the chain with a stout chain-hook, when fully deployed it is just under the water surface, allowing a free loop to fall behind it, and never comes off with the chain weight on it. However when retrieved it falls off the chain just before it comes in over the roller, so won't jam then system in an emergency up-anchor, as I have seen others have happen. Most importantly it is simple and it works..!

However, as Delfin said, endless debate around the subject appears mandatory, so have at it by all means. However, I can truthfully say, my snubber is the thing about our boat I probably lose the least sleep over. Just sayin'
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:36 AM   #59
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After the discussion about creating a stronger soft shackle, I finally broke down and learned to tie the Brion Toss Button knot to use on a shackle. I’m slow, but after a couple hours sitting in a chair with some line watching television, I got it down. I then wondered if the shackle design that I like the best (the “better soft shackle from the L-36.com website) could be adapted to use the button knot.

After a couple attempts, I created one that I like. While I haven’t tested it, it should be about as strong as the “stronger soft shackle” that was developed. That is about 230% the line breaking strength. The 3/16” dyneema I am using has a breaking strength of 6,400 lbs. So the shackle should have better than a 14,000 lbs breaking strength. I like to be conservative so I would count on it being 2x the strength of the line, or 12,800 lbs.

BTW, this is not as strong as the overhand knot as was posted by (Delfin?). That, iirc has a breaking strength of about 240% of line strength. However, I like how this shackle works and it looks a little better.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:50 PM   #60
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Like the commercial guys sunchaser refers to, just use something that does the business. It is not rocket science. My snubber is probably shorter than most would use, and too thick to have enough stretch by most standards, but it will never break, and when attached to the chain with a stout chain-hook, when fully deployed it is just under the water surface, allowing a free loop to fall behind it, and never comes off with the chain weight on it. However when retrieved it falls off the chain just before it comes in over the roller, so won't jam then system in an emergency up-anchor, as I have seen others have happen. Most importantly it is simple and it works..!
Same here.
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