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Old 06-10-2018, 02:46 PM   #21
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I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

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Old 06-10-2018, 03:43 PM   #22
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I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

Ted
I like this idea a lot, seems so much more simple than fussing with two lines. Unfortunately my boat doesn't have a samson post or cleat on top of the winch. But it does have a lot of beefy hardware there. I will ask some guys if that is close in strength to the forward cleats.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:19 PM   #23
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There are several options.

I like low-tech and simple. I use two methods depending on the moood. One is a a line with a rolling hitch on the chain. The rolling hitch is easy to put one, easy to take off, and wont fall off.

The 2nd method is I use a dyneema loop wrapped around the chain and soft shackle to attach the bridle or snubber to the dyneema loop.
Attachment 77238Attachment 77239


For attachment I use a similar soft shackle, but thread it through one of the chain links, thereby eliminating the choker around the chain.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:36 PM   #24
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For attachment I use a similar soft shackle, but thread it through one of the chain links, thereby eliminating the choker around the chain.
What's the rating on a soft shackle you use for Tanglewood size yacht?
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:38 PM   #25
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A bridle can be made with any length of line you like. I use a bridle made up of 2 x 25 lengths of 1/2 3-strand. A bridle with a combined length of 50 is not the same as a snubber of 50. I seem to recall a Practical Sailor article a couple years ago that indicated that the equivalent snubber is about 70% of the total line length of a bridle. So my bridle would be roughly the equivalent of a 35 1/2 snubber.

Your point is a good one though and while I think my bridle is more than adequate for my needs, there could be situations where I would want a longer bridle with potentially heavier line. Alternatively, I could just add a length of 5/8 3-strand from the bridle to the chain creating a Y. 25 would give me the equivalent of a 60 snubber. I also think that brait would be a nicer choice than my 3-strand, but Im really cheap. I can get 3-strand pretty inexpensively but not so with brait.
I haven't seen many long bridles, so your approach sounds good to me. The two other reasons I prefer a single line of the bow is reduced chafe and a reduction in the tendency of a vessel on a bridle to sail at anchor a bit more. I guess this happens as the boat cocks to the pull on whichever side of the bridle is currently taut.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:50 PM   #26
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Dave, any reason why you could just pass a snubber line (just a plain line) through the other end of the dyneema loop, then attach to the bow cleats? Eliminate the eye?
That would work. I used the thimble to reduce chaffing. What I really have are two thimbles that are attached to the dyneema loop with a shift shackle.

I have both continuous loops of dyneema as well as a dog-bone which is a piece of dyneema with spliced loops on either end. With the loop I do a larks head around the chain but wrap it twice. With the dog bone it is similar I feed the end through the opposite eye around the chain and wrap it twice. I've added some nylon webbing for chaffe protection.

The photo is it wrapped around the chain. Ignore the line next to it as it is simply holding my anchor tight to release tension on the windlass. Click image for larger version

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Old 06-10-2018, 05:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

Ted
Good points Ted. I find the bridle reduces sailing at anchor on my boat. My hawse pipes also are a lot beefier than the cleat next to the windlass so in my case that are more secure.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:57 PM   #28
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When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:25 PM   #29
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When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....
Yeah, there is a reason I make my own. I can custom fit them for any purpose.
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:46 PM   #30
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When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....
They are very easy to make....
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:27 PM   #31
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You want the line to be small enough to stretch when necessary but not small enough to break.
David
+1

For a Krogen 42, I switched from 3/4" to 5/8" to allow more stretch. Also I suggest you go with 20 ft of line. The longer the line the more stretch. Also I moved the cleat spot over the years as use of the same spot does wear through. Thus the extra few feet was useful.

Also I found that I needed an extra loop on the cleat as the pull was greater than on a dock line.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:14 AM   #32
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What's the rating on a soft shackle you use for Tanglewood size yacht?


Lots and lots. Seriously, I actually dont know. In a momentary lapse of character, I deferred to the guys at Ropes.com for sizing.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:32 AM   #33
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Lots and lots. Seriously, I actually dont know. In a momentary lapse of character, I deferred to the guys at Ropes.com for sizing.
Not sure what you use T, but for my 1/2" it is 7/16" which has a minimum strength of 21,000#, or a lot more than the 1/2" G4 chain does. Why anyone would use a metal plate, hook or whatever of any design to attach a snub line to chain instead of a soft shackle is beyond me.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #34
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Not sure what you use T, but for my 1/2" it is 7/16" which has a minimum strength of 21,000#, or a lot more than the 1/2" G4 chain does. Why anyone would use a metal plate, hook or whatever of any design to attach a snub line to chain instead of a soft shackle is beyond me.

In theory, a soft shackle as I make them should have about 4x the strength of the line it is made of. This is because the strain is born by 4 lengths of the line. In practice however, the stopper knot is the weak point. In all testing that Ive seen, the actual breaking strength of the shackle is a bit more than the breaking strength of the line. Most agree that the strength of the shackle is about 125% of the strength of the line. So in my own mind, I just consider the breaking strength of the shackle to be equal to the breaking strength of the line it is made of. That gives me a 25% safety margin.

There is another knot that can be used for the stopper that will increase the breaking strength significantly, over 200% of line strength, but the button knot that is used is frankly more difficult to tie and it is just easier for me to keep using the diamond knot that is easy to tie, and I am experienced with. If I want something stronger, I just go with a large line. I know I can make a very good diamond knot consistently. That is better than a better knot that Im not confident with.

The 3/16 (5mm) line that I use has a minimum spliced breaking strength of 6,500 lbs. So the shackles have a breaking strength of around 8,000 lbs but again, I just figure 6,500.

I am getting some 8mm dyneema that will have a breaking strength of 15,300 lbs. That would give a shackle strength of about 19,000 lbs.

1/2 3 strand has a minimum breaking strength of about 5,700 lbs, so my shackle is much stronger than the line to which it is attached. However, the shackle isnt as strong as 5/8 line. That is why I am going to make some with 8mm line. It will be stronger than the breaking strength of 3/4 line and almost as much as 1 line.

Bob, if you are interested, I can make you up a couple for you to try on Mahalo.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:28 PM   #35
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Here's a couple of images that describe how to tie the knot so that it is a strong point, not a weak point. The knot is also super easy to tie.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:15 PM   #36
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Here's a couple of images that describe how to tie the knot so that it is a strong point, not a weak point. The knot is also super easy to tie.

I've heard the overhand knot used but had not seen it. I don't suppose you have a photo of the shackle with the knot tightened up do you? It looks easy to make. I think I will give it a try. The only downside I see if that it would take more line and end up with a very large stopper knot.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:18 PM   #37
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Not sure what you use T, but for my 1/2" it is 7/16" which has a minimum strength of 21,000#, or a lot more than the 1/2" G4 chain does. Why anyone would use a metal plate, hook or whatever of any design to attach a snub line to chain instead of a soft shackle is beyond me.

It has also been my understanding that the synthetic rope is much stronger that all the other components involved, hence my deferral on sizing concerns.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:31 PM   #38
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My two pesos worth -
Snubbers, rodes and anchors generate a lot of discussion and emotion for recreational craft. As I wander the docks and talk with the pros in AK I note that all manners and sizes of fishing boats have no snubbers, employ big heavy rusty anchors and use their vessels in the most fearsome of weather. And yes, these guys anchor out, a lot.

So AC, I suggest you do the basics such as a big anchor, stout chain and any type of cited snubber (try a few different ones, they're cheap) you consider easy and deployable - and put some miles under your keel. Leaving the dock can be fun. You and your vessel are very capable.

For the PNW, choosing the weather, bottom type and location to anchor are at the top of the "anchor practices" list IMHO. A decent (there are many) anchoring setup will work quite nicely if the aforementioned are taken into account.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:49 PM   #39
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My two pesos worth -
Snubbers, rodes and anchors generate a lot of discussion and emotion for recreational craft. As I wander the docks and talk with the pros in AK I note that all manners and sizes of fishing boats have no snubbers, employ big heavy rusty anchors and use their vessels in the most fearsome of weather. And yes, these guys anchor out, a lot.
Yes, but the difference is many (most?) of these fishing boats have enormous hydraulic "reels" (?) for their anchors. Like the one pictured below. These would be out of place on your average trawler.

People here are discussing snubbers primarily to take the load off their windlass, which is not designed for abuse like their AK brethren. Second benefit seems to be some noise reduction.
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Old 06-11-2018, 05:05 PM   #40
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Considering a single length of 1/2 in. Line attached to the chain with a rolling hitch knot to a Sampson post just aft of the windlass. Anyone ever have any issues with the rolling hitch coming through the bow roller and getting bound up?
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