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Old 04-23-2014, 06:34 PM   #1
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Best Claw type anchor

All the claws I've ever seen look almost alike. It appears the present manufacturers of the Claw think as most boaters do that the Bruce anchor posses some kind of magic perfection that if deviated from would result in failure. Look where we'd be if car manufacturers thought that in 1929. We'd still be driving black model A's.

The following is part of an anchor test that included Claws.

"We were surprised it was one of the worst performers in our tests. The maximum resistance at 5:1 scope was 886lb – for a brief moment before breaking out. The tension graphs showed that the anchor never penetrated properly, setting and
releasing rapidly or simply scraping the bottom. Is this because the Claw doesn’t share the original geometry of the Bruce design? Were the Claw’s flukes simply not sharp enough to penetrate the harder clay-like sand?"
We recorded similar results at 7:1 scope. The beach trials showed the Claw ploughing a longer trench down the beach than most. Our conclusions were that the flukes of the Claw weren’t sharp or weighted enough to penetrate"

In their pictures the Claw dragged along like this: Can't seem to copy and paste the pic. It was dragging along w only three flukes berried and one sticking up. The top of the shank was laying on it's side. Only two flukes penetrated. The third was pushing along a lot of mud and sand and it looked that the ploughed mass kept the third fluke from rotating downward to bury all three flukes.



The anchor tester showed his ignorance by stating that there may not have been enough weight on the fluke tips to penetrate. Most people that know anchors know that the Claws are one of the very best anchors in this regard. They present a very high percentage of their total weight on the fluke tips during the initial setting process. I've always thought this helped explain the reputation Claws have for setting fast.


Others feel the flukes aren't sharp enough. Me included.


A few Claws have slightly different looking flukes and perhaps different length shanks both lengthwise and vertically. Some have the short stubby and thick flukes characteristic of the original Claw. But some have slightly longer, narrower and thinner flukes. I'm wondering if these differences or any other difference makes a difference in the performance of the anchor. What's the difference between the Lewmar, Sea Dog or other Claws?
OR ... what is your opinion?
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:09 PM   #2
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I had a heavy Bruce with all heavy chain and used it in mud on Chesapeake and ICW mid Atlantic. It tended to drag badly in thunder storms. I think it acted more like a plow then a digger.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:11 PM   #3
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I have a Lewmar claw and it works for me. In my opinion, that is good.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:19 PM   #4
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Claws drag and are consistently at or near the bottom as far as holding power goes in pretty much every anchor test I've ever seen. About all they do well is set fast.

Personally I would not waste my money on one. Even if they are one of the cheapest anchors you can buy.

The newer breed of spade type anchors are just far superior in my opinion.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:35 PM   #5
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I think it depends on whether or not you are anchoring in reversing currents. If in a reversing current, I'd use a CQR which has a hinge. Claws also work OK in that situation, but not as good as a good heavy CQR. Danforths are useless in reversing currents, but hold better than any if you use two.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 PM   #6
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Eric, as a general rule of thumb, (and you will not be surprised when I say I share the reservations re claw types many above expressed), I think of all the manufacturers who produce examples of the various types, the Manson (NZ) version will be the best. (They appear to have worked out the best compromise for each type that gives the best performance, be it a CQR, Claw, or Danforth types, because they value their reputation so much).
In this case, the Claw, the best of a not that great type - but hey, they appear to be adequate for many on here...
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:13 AM   #7
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I like my genuine Bruce, we have had a good relationship for 30 years and has never failed us yet. But if Rex sold his anchors in Canada then maybe I could see retirement for the old girl........
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:30 AM   #8
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I used a Bruce a few times but went back to my TRUSTY 45 lb CQR and all chain. I think that the type of bottom plays a more important role than the anchor design and once the anchor drags we tend to not TRUST it again, confidence is lost. I think setting an anchor is a art and some folks just don't no how to do it correctly. There used to be guide books that pointed out good "holding ground" in different anchorages. Example Black Sound off Green Turtle in the Abacos very poor holding while White Sound has excellent holding ground. Wind, water depth, current, lee shores, etc and the list goes on and on.
For 18 years I maintained a hurricane style mooring consisting of three 22 lb Danforth anchors with fifty foot long 3/8 chain rodes spread out equally around a 360 degree circle and a 20 foot 3/8 chain lead to the mooring ball. The anchors and rodes where set in a mud/sand bottom and it held thru near hurricane strength winds. I'm sure the composition of the bottom and the fact that this method always has two anchors and rodes worked together made it hold a 12 ton displacement full keel sailboat without dragging.

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Old 04-24-2014, 06:55 AM   #9
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I know a few habitual anchorers along the eastern seaboard who swear by their Bruce, though in each case they use a very heavy version. So much of anchoring is technique.

I also dispute the idea that Danforth type anchors don't work in reversing currents, and I sa this as someone who switch to a Delta from a Danforth in anticipation of anchoring in a large number of reversing current locations. 1) the old Danforth held fine in a couple of clocking wind situations before I made the switch 2) I have seen plenty of boats with Danforth/Fortress anchors hold fine in the same reversing current locations as I was anchored in. A few observations as to how your boat actually behaves as the current gradually slows, slacks, reverses, and picks up speed can help you visualize how a well set will work its way around. Do I sleep a whole lot betterin clocking situations in a boat with something like a Delta or CQR or Rocna or Supermax? Why sure I do!

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Old 04-24-2014, 04:57 PM   #10
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I agree that Danforths can and do work in reversing current situations within certain paramaters. I use one exclusively, and we have 10-16 foot tidal swings two times a day. No problems to date.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:09 PM   #11
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caltex,
In reversing currents I think you have a point. From what I've seen, heard and experienced the Danforths set dependably on a bottom that they perform well on like a soft bottom. In those conditions I think they can be depended on to reset. I would'nt trust them on hard bottoms though.

HiDHo,
You wrote "I think that the type of bottom plays a more important role than the anchor design". ........ Can't agree more.

Peter,
I assume you're talking about the Manson Ray. The most expensive Claw by far. I think a 33# Ray costs $950.00. Too expensive for me.

In starting this post I wanted to learn about the differences between the various Claws. It's commonly thought they are all the same but they are not. People think the original Claw (Bruce) can't be improved upon. That's not the way product evolution usually works. Products over time usually are improvements over their predecessors. The assumption is, of course that the later Claws that came along were just rough copies made w no research and development done. I don't think any of us know and there's a good chance one or more Claws are considerably better than the original Bruce.

One Claw that I can clearly see that the flukes are narrower and longer the the others. That's what I see in the pics of a Claw made by Plasimo or Manta. Don't know if there's any connection between Mantus and Manta. But in the pics on the WM catalog the flukes are definitely of a higher aspect ratio .... narrower and longer. Other Claws probably have differences that I can't see in the pics.

Has anyone used the Manta/Plastimo Claw? Anyone noticed a different performing or shaped Claw? Any Claw differences?

http://www.westmarine.com/lalizas-us...hors--P0085020
www.westmarine.com/lalizas-usa-inc--manta-anchors--P0085020tr
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:13 PM   #12
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The edit window sure disappears fast

<//www.westmarine.com/lalizas-usa-inc--manta-anchors--P008502007>

What do you think? The flukes are very much sharper. I think the sharper flukes would penetrate better but still maybe the anchor wouldn't rotate so all three flukes get buried. I think the Claw needs a design update that will insure all three flukes get into the act w the shank up on top.

Anybody seen one of these? Used one?
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Peter,
I assume you're talking about the Manson Ray. The most expensive Claw by far. I think a 33# Ray costs $950.00. Too expensive for me.

In starting this post I wanted to learn about the differences between the various Claws. It's commonly thought they are all the same but they are not. People think the original Claw (Bruce) can't be improved upon. That's not the way product evolution usually works. Products over time usually are improvements over their predecessors. The assumption is, of course that the later Claws that came along were just rough copies made w no research and development done. I don't think any of us know and there's a good chance one or more Claws are considerably better than the original Bruce.
That's why I suggested the Manson in answer to you query, because I suspect they have developed the claw type as far as it realistically can go. Next comes the question - ok, that being the case, why bother taking it further when it has gone about as far as it can go..? Just accept it is as good as it will ever be, and move on. Much like we do with much of what we buy. Eg, no-one will develop a better iPhone 3G, (son's handmedown), because they are currently up to 5S, and about to launch an iPhone 6. Anchors are no different. Each design reaches max potential, then just hangs around. As most do what they are meant to do most of the time, and are not cheap items, hence we have the plethora of different designs out there still being used. As Marin used to love to quote - "no anchor fails, until it does"
The search goes on...
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:25 AM   #14
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why bother taking it further when it has gone about as far as it can go..? Just accept it is as good as it will ever be, and move on.

New guys with a welder look at existing anchor PRI$E$ , and decide to get into the market.

A 60 lb hunk of welded steel that retails for $700 is too good a deal to pass up.

Find a beach , rig a test and video it and voilla , you are an anchor maker.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:46 AM   #15
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The claw has been updated, it's called a Rocna
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:09 AM   #16
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It's as simple as this:

The best anchor is the one that never fails you and costs the least. If a one hundred dollar anchor sets easily and doesn't break out on its own, the only real difference between it and a five hundred dollar anchor is four hundred dollars in someone else's pocket.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #17
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Good point Ron.

Capt.Bill11,
Here is an anchor test performed on a mud bottom. Lots of popular and some not so popular anchors were in this test. In the PNW the most common type of bottom by far is mud. As you can see only one anchor did worse than the Rocna at 7-1 scope. At 3-1 also only one anchor had less performance. The SARCA, Bulwagga, Danforth, Davis, Fortress, Hydrobubble, Super Max and the XYZ anchors all outperformed the Rocna.

This shows what myself and others have been saying all along that the bottom is the greatest variable in anchoring. And no anchor can do everything. The Claw wasn't represented here and they seem to do poorly in mud but if the Claw was here Rocna's status would have only improved slightly. If the Delta, Manson Supreme, the steel Spade and the SARCA Excell had been tested here also Rocna's status would probably been even more dismal.

The SF Bay area is also mostly mud and I'll bet most of the NE US is also mud. I see Mr Smith is still serving up propaganda on the web that I discovered searching anchors. I think Mr Smith and his marketing skills are far better than the Rocna anchor.

That said I can truthfully say the Rocna is a good anchor.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:42 AM   #18
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I find those Practical Sailor tests , and tests that merely measure straight line holding power to be of little value in the real world. Primarily, because they do a poor job of testing clocking conditions, and the methodology of setting the anchor varies. Maybe one data point of interest, but not something to make decisions on.

I've pretty much come to conclude that about all PS tests over the years.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
I find those Practical Sailor tests , and tests that merely measure straight line holding power to be of little value in the real world. Primarily, because they do a poor job of testing clocking conditions, and the methodology of setting the anchor varies. Maybe one data point of interest, but not something to make decisions on.

I've pretty much come to conclude that about all PS tests over the years.
George,
Here's a test for you if there is one.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:56 PM   #20
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Why I do like that a little better of course, because it agrees with me! And they like my anchor! Still, it doesn't really speak to how well the anchors were set in the first place, and even they note it was a fairly superficial sampling.
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