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Old 12-29-2014, 05:27 PM   #141
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psneeld - I would have expected the Fortress to do well though I had not appreciated how much better it would be when set at 45 degrees - so this was news to me. I would have thought 'better' but I would not have guessed that much better.

So from Fortress point of view they have educated me, accepting I'm pretty ignorant of this topic.

But I equally would never, ever, have guessed that other anchors would be so poor, not much better than dragging a mushroom weight along. Nor would I have ever thought that the Ultra would be that much better then a Spade, or a Mantus that much better then a Rocna. I note others do not accept the results based on their own experiences but I'm sufficiently comfortable with what Fortress have done to 'ignore' those anecdotal comments and when in thin mud I'll not deploy my Spade or (rush off and buy a Mantus) I'll simply deploy my Fortress at 45 degrees (and if asked I'd suggest others rush off and buy a Fortress (if they do not already have one).

If you sail Australia's east coast, from all the way north to all the way south, you will encounter a huge cross section of seabeds, coral (calcium) sand, pure silica sand, clay, weed of various types and densities and mud of varying consistencies (many of the anchorages are in very slow moving rivers). Many make the passage north in the winter, from Sydney (or Melbourne) to The Reef, and slightly less many make the passage south to Tasmania in the summer (there are possibly 60-70 vessels visiting Tas as I type - there is a 2 yearly circumnavigation in 2015).

Anyone cruising up and down the coast needs an anchor armoury to suit this cross section, so unlike you they will need to be able to anchor in thin mud and a Fortress looks dependable and has other positive characteristics to make it a 'must have'. Relying on another type of anchor, in thin mud, looks questionable - yes (according to some) it might work - but you would look very, very stupid if you have looked at the Fortress results and then ignore the lessons.
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:32 PM   #142
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Apparently you didn't read post #12. As others have stated, most of us can likely get whatever anchor we have on our boat to set in most any bottom. The more important question is what will happen when wind and / or current reverses. IMO, without this part, the test isn't terribly useful if you like to get a good nights sleep on the hook.

Ted
I had read #12, if that is the only alternative then my comment is - its unrealistic.

Who is going to lend the equipment? How are you going to ensure each seabed is the same, each enjoys the same flow of current etc.

You arrange it and I am happy to write it up and I will ensure it is published in a reputable American magazine.
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:53 PM   #143
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I had read #12, if that is the only alternative then my comment is - its unrealistic.

Who is going to lend the equipment? How are you going to ensure each seabed is the same, each enjoys the same flow of current etc.

You arrange it and I am happy to write it up and I will ensure it is published in a reputable American magazine.
My point exactly! If you can't or won't conduct the test to reflect what are clearly the most important characteristics in the consumers mind, then the tests are............wait for it..........UNREALISTIC!

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Old 12-29-2014, 06:08 PM   #144
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Hi Ted,

We try our best! And we do it with the best intentions. We try to make the tests as real as possible (and its the same type of test that is used t classify oil rig, commercial vessel and Navy vessel anchor so lots of credibility behind it all).

Oddly so many people were persuaded by the 2006 Sail results

Misguided, perhaps?
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:14 PM   #145
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Just another observation. I scanned the new copy of Yachting magazine I just received with magnification. Did not include the adds in back. I found 28 anchors I can see well enough to say with fair accuracy that only one might have been a Danforth or Fortress and all the others definitely not. Spade type anchors dominate the 27. I have been doing this with multiple boating magazines for more than a year and this result is typical. Where I see more Danforths and fortress in my area is when I walk the docks or examine boats(CGAUX safety examiner) which I do often. My general impression is that older and smaller boats tend to have more of these anchors while newer and larger boats tend to have other than Danforth types. I leave it to whoever reads this to draw what conclusions they will. Does anyone think that the magazines and boat builders won't put Fortress on the bow because they are ugly??
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:24 PM   #146
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psneeld - I would have expected the Fortress to do well though I had not appreciated how much better it would be when set at 45 degrees - so this was news to me. I would have thought 'better' but I would not have guessed that much better.

So from Fortress point of view they have educated me, accepting I'm pretty ignorant of this topic.

But I equally would never, ever, have guessed that other anchors would be so poor, not much better than dragging a mushroom weight along. Nor would I have ever thought that the Ultra would be that much better then a Spade, or a Mantus that much better then a Rocna. I note others do not accept the results based on their own experiences but I'm sufficiently comfortable with what Fortress have done to 'ignore' those anecdotal comments and when in thin mud I'll not deploy my Spade or (rush off and buy a Mantus) I'll simply deploy my Fortress at 45 degrees (and if asked I'd suggest others rush off and buy a Fortress (if they do not already have one).

If you sail Australia's east coast, from all the way north to all the way south, you will encounter a huge cross section of seabeds, coral (calcium) sand, pure silica sand, clay, weed of various types and densities and mud of varying consistencies (many of the anchorages are in very slow moving rivers). Many make the passage north in the winter, from Sydney (or Melbourne) to The Reef, and slightly less many make the passage south to Tasmania in the summer (there are possibly 60-70 vessels visiting Tas as I type - there is a 2 yearly circumnavigation in 2015).

Anyone cruising up and down the coast needs an anchor armoury to suit this cross section, so unlike you they will need to be able to anchor in thin mud and a Fortress looks dependable and has other positive characteristics to make it a 'must have'. Relying on another type of anchor, in thin mud, looks questionable - yes (according to some) it might work - but you would look very, very stupid if you have looked at the Fortress results and then ignore the lessons.
You keep saying what others have been saying all along...yet in a way with a final twist people are compelled to challenge not the bulk...but the final twist...so it all just keeps going on......

And your bottom material list can pretty much be found in the Chesapeake Bay alone except for coral sand but coarse sand is certainly similar....certainly he same as if anyone does the US East Coast. No surprises for the average cruiser.....
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:47 PM   #147
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Is it possible that the folks who have spent big boat buck for the new bow bling anchors cant accept that a cheaper ugly anchor could perform well. Maybe it stings a little after spending $2K on an Ultra.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:20 PM   #148
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In Sydney and Brisbane the bigger and flashier motor vessels all have Ultra's on the bow, at boat shows - its a deal (and a clever marketing ploy that I can admire) done by the Ultra importer. Most of the other new boats have Deltas (except more recently - some of the French imports have sported Kobras or Spades).
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Old 12-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #149
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I like the Kobra.
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:37 PM   #150
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I cannot believe we have been through Charismas, topics on anchors have taken over, seemingly - supposing the greatest day of rejoicing; I can see no evidence of anyone taking a break from this ongoing discussion.

Anchor manufacturers, designers, we are the few driven by passion to do better, maybe in time we can better convince some that we have made a difference. Unfortunately in the marketing world, anchor testing, you are likely to be given even more ammo from the big retailers for discussion in the following year other than from anchor designers, easy to figure out.

Low and behold on another forum we had anchor discussions taken to a new level, we had a topless mermaid photographing anchors, the Mermaid belonged to a moderator just to make a point, the mermaid; is a moderator also, extraordinarily lengths some go to as 90 percent of the photos are taken of the one anchor design, what is going on - WHY ? I think as a result there will be many opposition anchors shown in poor light, new inventive ideas are exposing new tactics by some wanna bees, create more attention than others, surely that’s all it can be? If they were independent no problem, Moderator Mermaid anchor inspectors—what next?

Just maybe some are trying to impress each other, is it the need to be heard; challenge the writer, maybe I have had too much of the grape juice recently, NAHHHH I’m just in search for an answer as to why time stands still when it comes to forum anchor discussions, from personal insinuations to anchor testing, types, material, old school designs, maybe even beauty contests now?

Oh well I suppose there is always a humbug, carry on its enjoyable, I understand most of it is just good fun. merry Christmas to all.

Regards Rex.
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:49 PM   #151
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Do you think my windlass will pull this anchor up?
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:21 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Rex;
[COLOR=black
Low and behold on another forum we had anchor discussions taken to a new level, we had a topless mermaid photographing anchors, the Mermaid belonged to a moderator just to make a point, the mermaid; is a moderator also, extraordinarily lengths some go to as 90 percent of the photos are taken of the one anchor design, what is going on - WHY ? I think as a result there will be many opposition anchors shown in poor light, new inventive ideas are exposing new tactics by some wanna bees, create more attention than others, surely that’s all it can be? If they were independent no problem, Moderator Mermaid anchor inspectors—what next?[/COLOR]

Regards Rex.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Janet, are you listening. We've been getting short changed it seems.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:49 AM   #153
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Its a bit passé now and certainly seedy, very 20th Century, but when a marketing exercise lost steam then they would try semi naked ladies - it hid the fact there was nothing extra to say but gave the sales pitch a new lease of life. (It had legs in the UK for third rate newspapers with 'Page 3' topless wannabes.) Its maybe the lessor of 2 evils as the alternative was to knock the competition (or employ real journalists).

But none of this would happen in the anchor industry, so quite what Rex refers to?
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:23 AM   #154
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Janet, are you listening. We've been getting short changed it seems.


I am not sure if people are complaining that there have been too many photos of my wife (whom I affectionately call my Mermaid), or not enough .

I have not counted them but I think there are about half a dozen shots of her in a series of over 1000 photos showing anchors and how they work in the real world. The photos document every anchor we have seen over the last 8 months.

Anyway I think she will be secretly flattered to get so much attention .

This is an example of what all the fuss is about:
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Old 12-30-2014, 04:27 AM   #155
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Noelex,


Well there you go-the real world-just a passing comment don't know about all of the fuss and so much attention comment but then again?


Regards Rex.
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Old 12-30-2014, 04:30 AM   #156
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Noelex,

Trying to keep the thread on track - any pictures in mud?
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Old 12-30-2014, 05:34 AM   #157
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Following this has certainly given me a headache.

When does a thread jump the shark? I don't know but I think this poor old shark has died of old age. Probably bleaching his bones next to my trusty galvanised anchor.

Oh, and a happy Christmas to you Rex.
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:15 AM   #158
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any pictures in mud?
Mermaids or anchors?
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:32 AM   #159
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Mermaids or anchors?
I thought I'd better edit

Do you have any pictures of different anchors set in mud?
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Old 12-30-2014, 07:03 AM   #160
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>Do you think my windlass will pull this anchor up?<

Probably not but concrete is not that heavy in water so your boat may drag it along quire well in the next blow. Use it in a soft mud bottom for better results.

Mushroom cast iron anchors are of that shape , not a blob of iron , for a reason.
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