Anchoring on the River Rhine

[AndreHuizing]

Fair enough. I've been there, semi-often actually, but haven't ever tried to anchor a boat there. What's the substrate? Why wouldn't your Spade work? Just current speed/force? Or...?

-Chris

Hi Chris,
The bottom is large pebbles and rocks. The Spade will work and might even be one of the best "pleasure boat style latest gen anchors" as it will typically dig in deeper than a fluke style anchor. However holding in this substrate is always doubtful. Hence the real question is: would you go to sleep being anchored on the highway with 1000s of tons of freighters and pushers whizzing by creating huge turbulence at low water levels just several 10s of meters next to you in the dark?
Cheers, André

 

[ranger58sb]

Hi Chris,
The bottom is large pebbles and rocks. The Spade will work and might even be one of the best "pleasure boat style latest gen anchors" as it will typically dig in deeper than a fluke style anchor. However holding in this substrate is always doubtful. Hence the real question is: would you go to sleep being anchored on the highway with 1000s of tons of freighters and pushers whizzing by creating huge turbulence at low water levels just several 10s of meters next to you in the dark?
Cheers, André

Interesting. Don't know that I've ever seen substrate like that, anywhere... Must mean I haven't traveled enough.

-Chris

 

[AndreHuizing]

Interesting. Don't know that I've ever seen substrate like that, anywhere... Must mean I haven't traveled enough.

-Chris

Somebody who says he has travelled (and learned) enough is dead imho
This substrate is not uncommon in upper and middle reaches of fast flowing mountain fed rivers. Basically anything smaller than pebbles is washed to the lower reaches. In Holland (the lower Rhine Delta) it's mostly sand and clay.

Happy travelling! André

 

[twistedtree]

Somebody who says he has travelled (and learned) enough is dead imho
This substrate is not uncommon in upper and middle reaches of fast flowing mountain fed rivers. Basically anything smaller than pebbles is washed to the lower reaches. In Holland (the lower Rhine Delta) it's mostly sand and clay.

Happy travelling! André

Right, all the silt and sand IS Holland.

 

[Irish Rambler]

I read the gcaptain.com website and its the same old global warming theme.
There are just two points I'd like to make.
1, If global warming is lowering rainfall how come I had to wait for 10 weeks to get up the Rhine due to heavy flooding ?
It always floods to some extent in the spring/early summer due to the alps snow melt. That's perfectly normal behaviour.
And guess what ? Water levels are low in the early autumn due to summer weather and barges have to load accordingly.
Of course the barges want to run at maximum load/profit ratio and boy do they complain if anything touches their profit !
The trick is to get the timing of your planned journey right on any free flowing river by studying the recent water level history AND having a suitable boat/equipment.

2, The British Royal Navy have been studying and recording world weather patterns since the early 1700's as a fighting force it was essential for them. They invented the barometer air pressure, isobars (Admiral Fitzroy), the chronometer (John Harrison) weather forecasting and wave measurement ( Admiral Beaufort, Beaufort scale,).
The records show a similar weather phenomenon of warming occurred during the mid 1800's. It was believed to be caused by a slight change in the Earths rotational axis, no matter how much we'd like it to be precise in this digital world, the earths rotation and axis are not governed by man.

 

[AndreHuizing]

I read the gcaptain.com website and its the same old global warming theme.
There are just two points I'd like to make.
1, If global warming is lowering rainfall how come I had to wait for 10 weeks to get up the Rhine due to heavy flooding ?
It always floods to some extent in the spring/early summer due to the alps snow melt. That's perfectly normal behaviour.
And guess what ? Water levels are low in the early autumn due to summer weather and barges have to load accordingly.
Of course the barges want to run at maximum load/profit ratio and boy do they complain if anything touches their profit !
The trick is to get the timing of your planned journey right on any free flowing river by studying the recent water level history AND having a suitable boat/equipment.

2, The British Royal Navy have been studying and recording world weather patterns since the early 1700's as a fighting force it was essential for them. They invented the barometer air pressure, isobars (Admiral Fitzroy), the chronometer (John Harrison) weather forecasting and wave measurement ( Admiral Beaufort, Beaufort scale,).
The records show a similar weather phenomenon of warming occurred during the mid 1800's. It was believed to be caused by a slight change in the Earths rotational axis, no matter how much we'd like it to be precise in this digital world, the earths rotation and axis are not governed by man.

Talking about opening a can of worms Irish Rambler! This discussion could fill a category by itself.
Having traveled the world a lot I think the climate is changing at an alarming speed. Talk to natives in the extremes like alaska, terra del fuego etc and you get a frightening picture. Standing in your backyard denying this because it’s snowing heavily is...well let’s say not seeing the whole picture.
You might now that we had a “small ice age” between roughly 1550 and 1750. That was induced by some sailor called Columbus bumping into America. The natives on both these continents “farmed” by burning the forests down regularly. Because the immigrants were so nice to bring deathly diseases, iron axes and destroy entire societies this large scale burning stopped and the amount of greenhouse gases in atmosphere dropped dramatically leading to a small ice age. When population, steam engines etc. caught up again we got the heater going again...and it’s accelerating...mainly because population is accelerating...
What the world needs is less people. Hence an old fashioned epidemic, natural disaster or world war. The good message is that at least one of these will occur sometime...we’re stupid enough...
Enjoy life! Andre

 

[BruceK]

Talking about opening a can of worms...
When population, steam engines etc. caught up again we got the heater going again...and it’s accelerating...mainly because population is accelerating...
What the world needs is less people. Hence an old fashioned epidemic, natural disaster or world war. The good message is that at least one of these will occur sometime...we’re stupid enough...
Enjoy life! Andre

Exactment,Andre.I think you are a follower of Malthus, and his so called "Gloomy Theory". I wish more people could see it: More people> more demands on the planet>more heat>global warming.One day historians somewhere will ponder what occurred on Earth, how the population rose uncontrolled making the planet so hot life could not continue. Assuming,of course, Malthusian theory does not intervene and "save us"(or some of us).
Meanwhile, go boating and have fun!

 

[Irish Rambler]

I kinda thought if I dropped a smouldering ember I could sneak away quietly knowing it will burst into flames
Time for me to exit stage left and leave you guys to work it out

 

[Henning]

Thank you Andre, I might just take you up on that. My need for a second anchor isn't so much about holding power, but about being able to position the boat accurately. For example, when I'm kedged off the bank in slow currents with heavy traffic nearby, I need an anchor off the stern to keep the boat from riding up on its primary as interaction sucks me upstream. I also desperately need the ability to warp off, should I get stuck somewhere, so a dinghy handlable secondary is an absolute requirement before I proceed down the upper Danube.


I am not so concerned about bite in mud. My current anchor handles that like a dream. If I drop it in mud with 1:5 worth of chain and go 2 kts astern, she stops with a proper yank.


Also, may I respectfully request that discussion around global warming, our role and its moral implications be discussed in suitable forum, such as this thread:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/i-have-become-death-destroyer-worlds-41264.html


I still lack a good, written reference on river anchorage. That old barge captain who quickly calculated what size anchor I need must have learned that formula through some kind of training program. I would love for this thread to be expanded with references to their training material.

 

[wkearney99]

There's also the theory that says once prosperity reaches out across a large enough percentage of the population growth will stop the upward climb. As in, having enough to get by comfortably helps act as a brake against having more children. The question is whether the conditions will hold out long enough to see that happen.

As for local weather conditions, seeing what happens in one set of locations doesn't take into account what's happening on a global scale. Lack of rain in one place... well, it's been torrential here in the US mid-Atlantic these past months. Big picture, though, measured temperature samples taken worldwide show an alarming increase, well beyond external influences from solar or axial shifts.

 

[AndreHuizing]

I'm afraid there's no such thing as a "written reference on river anchoring" or at least I haven't seen anything resembling that description yet. Nor is there a training program covering this. The training program for a Rhine skipper is enormously extensive and tedious (e.g. you need to be able to recall every bend and every bridge etc. by heart) but I have not seen a anchor calculator in there either. This is just experience, usually acquired the hard way. After enough hard lessons people develop what we call in Dutch a "carpenters eye". What I have learned the hard way in my years of boating is having great respect for "local knowledge". I have often ignored it and almost as often regreted it heavily.