Anchoring again

[Nomad Willy]

Gerg,
More than brand of anchor this probably is a sea bed problem.
The most variable and troublesome aspect of anchoring.

The CQR’s problem is mostly setting IMO. Most all anchors work quite well holding but several (or more) don’t set well. Watching Steve’s vids I’m mostly impressed w the Super Sarca. But every anchor has a favorite sea floor to work with and an anchor that dosn’t need a lot of chain or-and scope is a blessing because all the chain you don’t need can be factored into anchor weight.

However I’m not very sold on bigger is better. One should think about “how much better”. Anchor design is clearly most important. And if you keep adding to the anchor weight factor or chain weight or even scope as one increases the value of the variable there comes a point where more chain, scope, anchor weight or size delivers little (and eventually nothing) to performance.

 

[Andy G]

Peter B;Just go with an appropriately sized (?+1) Sarca Excel, and you'll have no worries virtually ever. A Fortress as back-up for very soft mud might also be good, but you'll never get to use it.
PS I have no shares in Sarca, just know they are good.

Peter's love of all things Sarca is well known, though for good reason.

I traded our Rocna (25kg) for an Excell after an unsettling experience.

I anchored and went off in search of a coffee and came back to find the wind had shifted about 90 degrees and the boat was about one hundred meters from where I had left it, luckily still in the middle of the chanel.

I never felt entirely confident with the Rocna after that.

 

[Hobbit]

We use a Forfjord 18 anchor its 260 lbs with 60' of 1/2" chain and 1/2" galvanized steel cable rode. Our boat is not quite as big 57' and 92,000 lbs. Only had trouble once in 30 kts of wind in muddy bottom...just had to let out more line and that remedied itself. Rarely do we anchor with more than 2.5 : 1 of scope with no issues. I have a friend with a 65' boat 120,000 lbs with the same anchor and no issues in over 50 years.

 

[Mischief Managed]

You probably do not need another opinion, but on my 30,000ish lb, 44 footer, I replaced the 65 lb CQR, that came with the boat, with a 73lb Rocna Vulcan 33 and a Fortress FX37 after one season of use in New England. We anchor a lot and could not be happier with the Vulcan after 4 seasons in New England coastal waters. Have yet to try the Fortress since the Vulcan has been so reliable.

 

[Moonfish]

Just watched this video about the Ultra Anchor. Long video review, but thorough. We had an Ultra on a 45' charter catamaran in Tahiti a few years ago, and it worked as good as it looked. If you or anyone on TF wants one, PM me as we are online retailers for Ultramarine West products. They aren't cheap, but we can help out.

 

[cafesport]

The third most important thing in successful anchoring is the anchor, but it happened to be first thing we changed on our boat 11 years ago. Ditched a 350 lb plow for a 220 lb rocna. We have now spent well over 2500 nights on it and it apparently shows according to a broker or two. If we were to do it again now it would be a same size rocna but the new rocna2.

 

[tozz]

We use a Forfjord 18 anchor its 260 lbs with 60' of 1/2" chain and 1/2" galvanized steel cable rode. Our boat is not quite as big 57' and 92,000 lbs. Only had trouble once in 30 kts of wind in muddy bottom...just had to let out more line and that remedied itself. Rarely do we anchor with more than 2.5 : 1 of scope with no issues. I have a friend with a 65' boat 120,000 lbs with the same anchor and no issues in over 50 years.

We also use a Forfjord with 3/8" G4 chain in the PNW. Our bow configuration limits the anchor types we can carry. Our 65' boat came with a #12 and we upgraded to the #18 which their site lists as 210 lbs. We did drag a couple times in storms with the #12 (150 lbs) but both times scope was under 5:1 due to crowded anchorage conditions. Since upgrading we've been in 25+ kt three times with no problems. Once in an anchorage with a reputation for dragging due to eel grass but we stayed put with about 4.5:1 scope.

-tozz

 

[Juliet 15]

FWIW, I run a 58' boat at 110,000 lbs. I have a 121 lb Vulcan. I've not experienced anything above 40kts yet while anchored, but it's never dragged. I love this anchor.

 

[J.T kearney]

Hi All
I'm ready to up grade my old knock off 20 kg Bruce anchor for a vulcan but would like to go up a size (25 kg) but the recommended chain size goes up from 5/16 to 3/8. I had bought a new maxwell windless to accommodate my new 5/16 chain. My boat is a mainship 350 at (35 ft at waterline, 39 ft overall at 12 tons). Is there an issue using the lighter chain?
Cheers J.T.

 

[rslifkin]

Hi All
I'm ready to up grade my old knock off 20 kg Bruce anchor for a vulcan but would like to go up a size (25 kg) but the recommended chain size goes up from 5/16 to 3/8. I had bought a new maxwell windless to accommodate my new 5/16 chain. My boat is a mainship 350 at (35 ft at waterline, 39 ft overall at 12 tons). Is there an issue using the lighter chain?
Cheers J.T.

Use the lighter chain. Personally, I think manufacturers recommending chain size based on anchor size is stupid. Chain size is based on the boat and how much load it can put on the anchor. For a Mainship 350 I'd have no concerns about using 5/16" HT or G43 chain. 5/16" BBB may be a little on the weak side, but if that's what you have, most of the modern Maxwell windlasses use the same gypsy for 5/16 BBB" and 5/16" G43, so the windlass will work fine.

 

[Mac2]

s/v Panope's anchor testing is the best I've seen. Not only do you get to see the video results, but he tests the resetting ability of the anchor. Most tests I have seen only test the pull/holding strength. Another consideration, which few anchors advertise, is the shaft strength.
I'm 65 feet 90 ton. 500 feet 1/2 inch chain. I went with the 260 lb Sarca Excel. My second choice would have been a Spade anchor. I went with the Sarca because the construction impressed me. Shaft material, stainless tip, and steel ballast/weight instead of lead, so you can re-galvanize the anchor without having to melt out the lead. Plus all the fittings are welds, not bolts.
I have no affiliation with Sarca.

 

[J.T kearney]

RSLifkin
Thats what I was hoping to here. I've got 100 ft of 5/16 G4 and 150 ft of 5/8 rode. I was originally thinking of adding another 100 ft of G4 and keeping the same size anchor (20 kg) but in an old thread someone mentioned just to go with a larger anchor (25 kg) instead. A better return in holding power with a larger anchor verses more chain. It is surprising going from a 20 kg Vulcan to a 25 kg is almost twice the price.
Thanks for your input
Cheers J.T.

 

[sealandsky]

Before you buy - Check out "Ultra Anchor".

 

[bowball]

Before you buy - Check out "Ultra Anchor".

I have a 45kg Ultra on a 60' 70,000 lb boat, and have had no issues or regrets, though I have only experienced up to 40kt winds and anchor typically in 30 to 50' water with a scope of 5:1 usually. It is of course always easy to talk up size, and sometimes I wonder whether 55kg would have been even better, but then again why not 65kg! The equivalence of the creeping 2' size issue, without an obvious negative if it fits I suppose.

 

[Moonfish]

It is of course always easy to talk up size, and sometimes I wonder whether 55kg would have been even better, but then again why not 65kg! The equivalence of the creeping 2' size issue, without an obvious negative if it fits I suppose.

Good one! I don't think any trawler owner has ever said, "I wish I had a lighter anchor..."

 

[hmason]

Good one! I don't think any trawler owner has ever said, "I wish I had a lighter anchor..."

Well I did when my windlass failed.

 

[Moonfish]

Well I did when my windlass failed.

Ha! Good point.

My hydraulic drum windlass broke while bringing up the anchor in the Copeland Islands north of Lund, BC. We spent the night with about 150' out. Chain and anchor weigh over 300 pounds. Windlass broke with the anchor about 6' from the surface. Fortunately I had 6'3", 300-pound Bob Bitchin with me. We hauled it the rest of the way up, pretty easily with both of us. But I didn't like thinking it could have happened with 100' or more to bring up - without him there to help!

 

[Nomad Willy]

I anchored for years w 13 to 18lb anchors.
I rode out several 50 knot gales on the PNW coast w/o draging and hand hauling or using an electric drum winch or capstan.
My boat was a 30’ Willard.

But to succeed w light anchors you need anchoring experience and a high fluke area is more than just helpful.

Anchor design is more important than weight IMO but it all adds up.

 

[Caballero II]

Hi guys. I have just finished our second season with our new boat the quiet storm. It is 65 loa and 75k.lbs. Running a CQR 105 lb plow. I have full chain with snubbers. I anchor every weekend rain or shine. I am having classic anchor dragging problems in storm conditions. I need to change my anchor to something more reliable. Anchoring is in classic soft mud and crowed anchorages in the north east.

I am a lifetime boater whit tons off anchoring time. Technique is not the issue.

Please can anyone in this size category chime in with what they run. The cqr is rated for the size but just dose not have the holding power I need. . I have never had good luck with the Plow style anchor. I gave this 2 good seasons to try with 6 pull/slides. I also have Fortress fx55 's on board. I keep one rigged in the lazarette for an emergency. They are rated too small for the size boat. Fortress should be a fx85. The fortress website says go up to 2 sizes bigger for storm conditions. This puts me into an fx125. Which is were I think I am going to go.


I ran a fortress fx 55 on my 42 sf 33 k lbs for 15 years. Never had a pull even in 60k storms several time. That anchor was 2 times bigger than what fortress said the normal anchor should be.

Real world recommendations for the size and weight of the style of boat would be appreciated.

I would just go with the new generation anchors. I call them "weighted Picks". Rocna, Utra, etc., they are mentioned above. They seem to dig in better than CQR's or Bruce/Claw type. A Danforth type is always good for sand and mud, but I don't want to deal with one on my foredeck. I might put a Fortress in my bilge for an emergency, but otherwise, I'm not interested.

 

[Meander]

Hi Unicorn here 50,000# 49LOA 180ft all chain 60# CQR - no issues CQR looooves mud - drop and sets 30ft - resets loose 10ft around 180s no issue.

Have not seen thread owner lately - miss a little bit the current flow force vector in this discussion - craziest situations had when wind vector and current flow force vector come from different directions.
Wind force vector is easy to calculate or approximate and any anchor/ground tackle system has a theoretical limit - I placed mine around 1200lbs max holding power in best ground conditions -
wind pushing boat nearly perpendicular to current 2,5kts dont know 900# holding a boat my size in plaze?? - thats when I start praying for wind direction change - drag likely.

a calc for my boat rough guessing windage size and coefficient if hit from bow - I would feel ok till 45kts with my CQR (in east coast mud - sand I dont know honestly) - anything hitting me above I would daisy chain secondary Danforth - scope is king.

windspeed(kt) force(lbs) (warm southern temp)
10 30
15 68
20 121
25 189
30 275
35 371
40 485
45 613
50 757
55 916
60 1090
65 1280
70 1484
75 1703
80 1938
85 2188
90 2453
95 2733

Ya'll have a good one!