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Old 06-03-2014, 11:06 AM   #81
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Peter that's standard w any anchor. none penetrate very far in most bottoms. The shank and the rode prevent most anchors from much penetration. The XYZs shank is streamlined and so small it does penetrate very well. Just more than others though.

The Dreadnought probably penetrates 3 or 4" depending on the bottom and the size of the anchor. Even the Navy anchor penetrates some. But the Dan & Navy don't penetrate much. The Navy acts like a bulldozer in my opinion. Dosn't rely on the material on top of the anchor but the material in front of the anchor. It creates it's own berm that presents resistance. They say there's burying anchors and non burying anchors but they all do get to some degree below the surface.

The Claw has small flukes but the shank is so high that it dosn't even touch the bottom until the flukes have penetrated 10 to 16" depending on the size of the anchor. Then the shank goes deeper more easily because the angle is more parallel to the bottom. And the vertical part of the Claw's shank just causes drag. It does not push up .. reducing penetration .. like on a Danforth or Dreadnought. There's another anchor that has a shank very very similar to the Claw. SARCA.

The Danforths and roll bar types have stocks and roll bars that limit penetration in that they don't aid the anchors penetration. They just cause drag. But your'e right Peter most of the newer anchors do penetrate better and hold better as a result. Some anchor experts say an anchor's holding power is directly proportional to fluke surface area. But 2 sq ft of fluke area 12" down is far superior to being only 3" down. In time better anchors will be built. And as always they won't be perfect.
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Old 06-03-2014, 12:55 PM   #82
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Many years ago Danforth came out with an anchor called a Deepset. It looked a lot like a regular Danforth except everything was made as thin and sharp as possible. The shank was very thin but strong and springy steel.

They introduced the anchor at a trade show with a large aquarium full of sand. They had made tiny scale models of the Deepset and a High Test anchor.

You would drop the high test into the sand and pull it along the bottom until it was well set but with enough effort you could drag it through the sand.

If you did the same thing with the Deepset model, it would just keep digging deeper until you could not pull it. It was amazing. This was about a three inch anchor and grown men couldn't drag it through the sand.

They actually recommended putting several feet of cable between the anchor and the chain to make it easier for the shank to bury itself.

They had trouble producing it in larger sizes. The spring steel shanks always seemed to have a little curve to them and people wouldn't buy them.

I have a small one hanging on my pulpit as a back up anchor.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:27 PM   #83
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I'am moving a 47' Comcorde from the umr to the Detroit river, left 2 weeks ago last Monday. I planned to anchor out as often as possible, my concern was the small Danforth on the bow. We have anchored every night except the 3 nights spent in marinas and the genuine Danforth 10 lbs has set and held very well on the Mis & Illinois rivers and along the eastern shore of Lake Michigan and the one time so far on Huron. I have a FX-37 on my 18,500 lbs boat which I know is overkill but I sleep well. This Concorde is 40,000 lbs dry and I've gained much more confidence in the Danforth on the bow than when we started this trip, there is a FX-23 as a backup that I thought we may need especially in the current of the Illinois river, but never felt the need for it.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:09 AM   #84
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In the early XYZ days they offered the anchor w a 2 or 3' cable w eyes on the ends. When I bought my first XYZ they didn't send me one so I had one made up. I seldom use it and don't know if it ever did me any good.

In soft bottoms Claws are well known for burying so deep ther'e difficult to extract.

River Cruiser,
The Danforth anchor is the highest holding power anchor in the world. The Fortress has proven that on many anchor tests. I bought one awhile back that was made by a salvage co. It has a heavy shank and stock. It's heavy for my boat at 36lbs and have not tried it yet. But I've used my 13lb Danforth and it has always set and held up to 35 knot winds. It came w the boat. "Came with boat" is how most boaters get their anchors.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:57 PM   #85
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"Seeking Fortress FX-23 or FX-37 Anchor"

I just placed this heading in classified. I've two original, old-school Danforth anchors, 23 lb and a 30 lb. Neither does real well in the extra fluffy mud bottom of SF Delta. I've had both pull loose with not too much effort, with or without 15' of chain lead to line. All my life of boating in other bottom conditions Danforth has been my anchor of choice.

Sooo... In researching I located stats on the Fortress brand and feel its configuration may be the ticket for being sure to dig deeply into SF Delta's super soft mud. Fortress shank can be set at 45 degrees to the flukes for better downward digging into soft mud and it has Mud Palms on both sides to center top so the wings don't tend to settle into mud and ruin the 45 degree dig angle of its flukes.

We shall see!
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:23 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
... Neither does real well in the extra fluffy mud bottom of SF Delta. I've had both pull loose with not too much effort, with or without 15' of chain lead to line. ...
I perceive it as sticky/dense/heavy mud bottoms, leastwise in the western SF estuary, which a claw handles readily.
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:31 AM   #87
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You'll love it Art. Bought an FX-16 from Hopkins Carter this year after trying to scrounge one off the classifieds. Best improvement to the boat yet. My 16 would be plenty for your Tolly as it's big for my Owens.

I thought someone had a 23 for sale here recently?
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:07 AM   #88
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CPseudonym, Thanks for the plug!
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:21 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Art View Post
"Seeking Fortress FX-23 or FX-37 Anchor"

I just placed this heading in classified. I've two original, old-school Danforth anchors, 23 lb and a 30 lb. Neither does real well in the extra fluffy mud bottom of SF Delta. I've had both pull loose with not too much effort, with or without 15' of chain lead to line. All my life of boating in other bottom conditions Danforth has been my anchor of choice.

Sooo... In researching I located stats on the Fortress brand and feel its configuration may be the ticket for being sure to dig deeply into SF Delta's super soft mud. Fortress shank can be set at 45 degrees to the flukes for better downward digging into soft mud and it has Mud Palms on both sides to center top so the wings don't tend to settle into mud and ruin the 45 degree dig angle of its flukes.

We shall see!
Art,

You will see a dramatic difference in holding power of the Fortress at the 45 angle in those soft mud bottoms. We conducted a series of tests in 1990 near Hunter's Point in the SF Bay and you can expect a 3-4x increase in holding power vs. the 32 angle.

We also recently completed 3 days of extensive testing in the soft mud of the Chesapeake Bay and found similar results.

Although we hold a US patent on the adjustable shank / fluke angle, using a wider angle to improve anchor performance in soft mud is no secret, as Vryhof (large offshore anchor manufacturer) and the US Navy have anchors with this feature.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
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