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Old 05-28-2014, 05:57 AM   #61
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>Now I need to practice anchoring. I have never owned a windlass so this will be an adventure. <

The basic technique is to ONLY use the windlass to pick up the anchor from the bottom after it has been broken loose.


> Forget the weight it's holing power-setting ability-digging ability-resetting ability-structural strength. Within a particular anchor type size and weight will matter but not so important when comparing different types.<

Perhaps true in a perfect world with perfect anchoring conditions.

The real world has litter , stones and sometimes grass as well as ooze to anchor in.

The flyweight pocket anchor might hold fine , IF you dive with a shovel and bury it.

For most folks , bigger (heavier) is better as it requires less than perfect to set and hold the boat.

We too carry an aluminum anchor , but is a very large size for use as a hurricane anchor.

With days to proceed to good holding and days to set the anchors the huge surface area is a positive as a Danforth 90 would be too heavy/clumsy to bring up from below.

If you have 1 lb of anchor for every 10,000 lbs of 3 story roomaran please anchor downwind of us!
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:33 AM   #62
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Like it or not the Fortress (as Fred says "flyweight pocket anchor") will hold a boat as advertised and there is no doubt it's clearly the highest performing anchor in the world. Some think the Rocna is. I posted an anchor test where the Rocna did poorly and I've never seen such a performance for the Fortress. And it always stacks up as having higher performance than the Rocna and everything else.

Fred says "If you have 1 lb of anchor for every 10,000 lbs of 3 story roomaran please anchor downwind of us!" ........
This your idea of the "real world"?
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:10 AM   #63
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Fred says "If you have 1 lb of anchor for every 10,000 lbs of 3 story roomaran please anchor downwind of us!" ........
This your idea of the "real world"?

If you would like to visit with this type of individual you will find him with his watch fob hooked to a 1 inch line acting as key boat in a 40 boast raft up

The fun begins when the wind gusts to 3K!
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:00 AM   #64
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The wind is 3000 what?

The real world is when the anchor holds or drags.

Has mostly to do w the anchor design and little to do w weight.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:07 AM   #65
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knots I believe....
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:11 PM   #66
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Yea I thought about that when I was in the shower.

I have trouble w FFs stuff sometimes even if he posts the whole word.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:08 PM   #67
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manyboats - TMI about the shower

FF - not enough "I" for some readers...

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Old 06-01-2014, 11:03 PM   #68
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Boating in an area of 2.5-knot and more tidal currents changing directions four times in a 24-hour period, a primary concern is that the anchor reliably reset (current direction will usually reverse two to three times during an overnight anchorage). So far, my 15 kg claw has reliably set and stayed set in the heavy mud of San Francisco estuary. (It "gets to me" when Bay Area boating writers say the claw is only suitable for rocky conditions.)
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:22 AM   #69
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We are going to spend our first night on the hook tomorrow so spent part of the weekend reading anchor threads here to try to gain some confidence. I am now confident of at least one thing which is that there is no such thing as consensus on this subject here.
I guess I will just drop my Forfjord #12 (145 lbs) with plenty of chain (5-1) and see where I wake up. Boat weighs about 55K, less than 10 knots wind expected but about 13 foot tidal switch during the night. I plan on sleeping well unless any of you think I shouldn't.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:25 AM   #70
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I normally check my position several times before going to bed. If my bladder wakes me in the middle of the night, I check again.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:29 AM   #71
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We are going to spend our first night on the hook tomorrow. ...
My first anchor launching on the Coot (with foot on the pedal):

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Old 06-02-2014, 12:32 AM   #72
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Yes Mark, we will have 3-4 hours after we drop anchor before turning in. Planning on sleeping well and actually doing it are two totally different things. I suspect there will be many position checks.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:51 AM   #73
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Mark,
The Claws performance is'nt stellar in mud. However it's lack of performance in mud is no doubt regarding really loose and slimy mud. There's mud and then there's mud. I think I anchored in mud every time on my trip south from Alaska because the anchor I used probably couldn't set in anything else. Most all mud isn't the slimy ooze that gives the Claw it's imperfect reputation so it's only rare the Claw fails the user .. At least for failing in mud bottoms. But no anchor performers very well at all in slimy ooze but the Claw performs even more poorly than others ... Hence the rep.

But it's human nature to blame "something" (other than themselves) and in anchoring problems the anchor gets the blame most of the time. To my knowledge I've never had the misfortune to anchor in ooze but when I do I'll use a Danforth or some other anchor more optimized for ooze type mud. One good thing about mud is that penetration is basically assured. And that counts.

I think FF is right that having multiple types of anchors at the ready is an advantage. But some modern anchors like the SARCA, Rocna and Manson Supreme come rather close to being fully capable on all bottoms. So close that I would not find fault w a skipper that had only that one type aboard.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:30 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
I think FF is right that having multiple types of anchors at the ready is an advantage. But some modern anchors like the SARCA, Rocna and Manson Supreme come rather close to being fully capable on all bottoms. So close that I would not find fault w a skipper that had only that one type aboard.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:59 AM   #75
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Here's my 2 cents worth

The new age anchors come close to holding in all bottoms, but no anchor is best in all areas. Around here we have a lot of limestone rock covered in weeds. The best anchor for this by far is a Marsh stockless.
http://www.industrialsprings.com.au/...s/os_stock.jpg

I'm sure no one outside of South Australia has heard of these, but this the most common anchor found on all serious boats in this area - for a good reason. In mud and soft sand they hold poorly, but nothing else hold as well on limestone. (and heavier is better; if you can lift it)
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Old 06-02-2014, 06:21 AM   #76
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I have found great luck with both the60 Danforth and 60CQR ,

but if I could ONLY have a single anchor for a cruise , I think I would choose a Herrishoff fisherman of about 500lbs (50 ft boat).
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #77
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Quote:
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I have found great luck with both the60 Danforth and 60CQR ,

but if I could ONLY have a single anchor for a cruise , I think I would choose a Herrishoff fisherman of about 500lbs (50 ft boat).
I assume you would need a hydraulic unit to lift it.

By the way, what type of anchor is a Herrishoff fisherman? (sorry, I don't venture into the anchor threads too often)
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:37 AM   #78
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Andy,
The Herrishoff Fisherman is is only slightly different from a Kedge or Yachtsman's Anchor. It's major difference is it's greater fluke area. Every Herrishoff Kedge I've ever seen is beautifully made compared to the very economical Fisherman's anchor. I include some pics of the Herrishoff anchors so all can see the difference between the fisherman/kedge and the Herrishoff. Note that the fluke arm is straight in the area of the fluke and bent (curved) only near the shank. The Fisherman/Kedge has a fluke arm that is curved equally throughout it's length. See 1st pic. Also many Herrishoff anchors can be disassembled into three pieces.

AusCan,
Nope ... never seen one ... the Marsh anchor. It's like a Navy anchor to a great extent. That's a very heavy shank. Like my Dreadnought anchor. Actually very much like the Dreadnought. Here's a Dreadnought aboard an active fishing boat .. fisherman included. Same long and heavy shank and the flukes are similar too. Probably 20% of the fishing boats in Craig Alaska use this anchor. The guy in the pic says his Dreadnought holds in 50 knot summer gales but drags in 60 knot winter gales. The Dreadnought may date back to the first world war.
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Old 06-03-2014, 05:54 AM   #79
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The trick to shipping a really heavy anchor is to do what was done before WWII when Danforth created his gem.

A bent piece of pipe , called a crane0 has a deck mount at the pointy end of the boat. It usually is foitted with a 4-1 or 6-1 tackle and a cleat.

When the windlass or capstan brings the anchor up to almost deck level a slakle is hooked to the eye of the anchor and the tackle is used to raise the anchor high enough to clear the rail.

It is then swung aboard and lowered into chocks and lashed down.

Just a bit of gear and tiny technique to use what today would be consider huge.

Still a 1 man job to get the anchor up and secured .

The old Rule of thumb (before Danforth) was 10 lb of anchor for each foot of boat.

The hassle with the Herrishoff anchors is the same as with the Northill , reversing current or winds can wrap the fluke standing proud and snag the anchor.
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Old 06-03-2014, 06:12 AM   #80
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Another problem again with those anchors discussed above, especially the Dreadnought, is they are only as good as the holding provided by the size and depth penetration of their flukes. Once their shank is on the bottom, there is no chance for deeper penetration as there is with other types which continue to dive into the substrate, like Danforth, Fortress, Rocna, Sarca, Manson Supreme and of course those based on the Spade. I suspect this limitation is the limitation in certain conditions of the Bruce/Claw type also.

So…they has to be really heavy, and even then, they had a limit, as Eric's anecdote re one holding to 50kn winds, but letting go in 60kn, illustrates. The newer designs now make huge weight virtually redundant. Thank goodness..!
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