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Old 08-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #101
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Maybe salesmanship and marketing have sought their own level (like water seeks it's own level) and supply/demand have leveled out.

Maybe the pressure to buy sell is where it's at despite all the hoopla on forum anchor threads and manufacturer "tests".

Maybe the consumers feel "satisfied"....
I'm not sure the Darwin was thinking of anchors when he developed his theory. And maybe the bulk of consumers simply do not know. Ignorance is bliss? The idea that boat owners can be satisfied with a cheap and nasty vague approximation to a Danforth surely insults them.

The fact that individuals who post here (and I cannot believe they exist in isolation) are prepared to put themselves out and maybe stretch their wallets to buy product from Anchor Right suggests to me that consumers do not feel satisfied.
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:39 PM   #102
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I'm not sure the Darwin was thinking of anchors when he developed his theory. And maybe the bulk of consumers simply do not know. Ignorance is bliss? The idea that boat owners can be satisfied with a cheap and nasty vague approximation to a Danforth surely insults them.

The fact that individuals who post here (and I cannot believe they exist in isolation) are prepared to put themselves out and maybe stretch their wallets to buy product from Anchor Right suggests to me that consumers do not feel satisfied.
Darwin wasn't into economics or anchors so I'm not quite sure what you are getting at there.

I certainly knew about all the new gen anchors available and have the money to have one shipped...just didn't see the need...maybe like millions of other cruisers.

All I'm saying is maybe NOT ENOUGH consumers are driving the need for Anchor Right products to be marketed "aggressively" worldwide but we'll see where that goes in the future.
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:28 PM   #103
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Quite good post Marin but I'll bet Rex may know as much as the Rocna boys about conducting business around the world. As far as I know Anchor Right Australia has made no manufacturing blunders like Rocna. I'm sure Rex has been aware of the opportunities world wide in anchors for a long time.

However, Manson sells their product at very competitive prices at West Marine for example. Anchor Right may be able to market w the same limitations or advantages as Manson. My own XYZ is available only on line and Draggo (the manufacturer) chooses to do it that way. He has his reasons and I'm sure Rex has his ..... or he would advance on the untapped market if there is such a thing.

But Anchor Right probably sees the risks of doing international business. Another fiasco like the Rocna shank could take an anchor manufacturer down. I think Rocna survived because they made good moves to overcome the their devastating blow. And some luck I'm sure. Also the Rocna is a good product even if overrated.

But your'e right. A market analysis would be in order and it would be interesting for us to see. To buy new anchors boat owners need to have a reason to do so. First they need to think they need a different anchor. That the one they have is not good enough and a new design is better. Better enough to justify spending enough money to buy the new anchor. Are anchor sales increasing, decreasing or fixed. If I was to go into the anchor manufacturing business I'd want to go small w limited risk. People like Rex have a lot to loose and would be wise not to take unnecessary risks.
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:53 PM   #104
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But your'e right. A market analysis would be in order and it would be interesting for us to see. To buy new anchors boat owners need to have a reason to do so. First they need to think they need a different anchor. That the one they have is not good enough and a new design is better. Better enough to justify spending enough money to buy the new anchor. Are anchor sales increasing, decreasing or fixed. If I was to go into the anchor manufacturing business I'd want to go small w limited risk. People like Rex have a lot to loose and would be wise not to take unnecessary risks.

'to buy a new anchor boat owners need a reason to do so etc'

Good post Manyboats.

If their website is correct Rocna are to introduce a new anchor without a roll bar - it will be interesting to see how they address the issue after the hard sell of the current model.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:00 PM   #105
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I'm sure Rex and Anchor Right have carefully thought through their market options. I'm just curious to know what they have determined, if anything yet.

I know several people right now who want to change anchors (from Bruce's). They are in the process of evaluating what's available, as well as what might work best in this area. From what they have told me (with no prompting from me), the Rocna is at or near the top of their short lists.

How these folks would feel if Sarca products were readily available in this area, I have no idea. Since they're not, they haven't considered them. In fact, I would venture to say that none of them have even heard of Sarca at this point.

My guess-- and it's just a guess--- is that the number of boaters who devote any effort to thinking about anchors is very small. The majority of the boats in our marina rarely, or never, go out. So anchors are not a priority to their owners.

Most of the other boaters are probably satisfied with whatever was on their boat when they bought it, or they did what we did when we acquired our boat, and bought the anchor "everybody else has." And most of these boaters probably never use their anchors. Hence the popularity of polished or plated anchors.

So perhaps the North American market for a new type of anchor, and one that is fairly expensive to start with, and in the case of the rollbar Sarca, "looks weird," is actually very small.

I'm just curious if Anchor Right has analyzed the North American market, and what their analysis tells them.

PS- I wonder if Rocna's inteintion to introduce a non-roll bar anchor is tied to the fact that a rollbar anchor does not fit well or at all on the pulpits of a lot of the most popular boats.

Land Rover did two year global study some years ago to find out how people actually used their 4wd vehicles. What they learned is that some 98 percent of the people who by 4wd vehicles never use them off the pavement.

So what this told Land Rover is that they needed to focus on the on-road capabilities--- stability, handling, comfort, quiet, and speed--- of the Range Rover and Discovery, and not put much effort-- or any effort--- into improving their off-road capabilities. So they did this, and the sales of these vehicles soared worldwide.

So perhaps Canadian Metals/Rocna have realized that most anchors are never used, or never subjected to extreme conditions. So maybe, like Land Rover, they've decided to put a product on the market with less capability but with far more appeal. A product that, like the newer Range Rovers, Discoveries, Evoques, and so forth, benefits from the reputation of it's more capable predecessors.

Just a guess......
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:11 PM   #106
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Psneeld wrote:


Maybe the pressure to buy sell is where it's at despite all the hoopla on forum anchor threads and manufacturer "tests".

Maybe the consumers feel "satisfied"....


Hi psneeld,

This is the thing that seems to go over many heads, Anchor Right Australia’s holding power figures were produced neither by the media or Anchor Right, they were produced from a company carrying out a certification test to Comply with the National Standards for Commercial Vessels. Part C Subsection 7D Anchoring Systems.

Surely all of the other anchor manufacturers that state they have certification must also have testing evidence of holding power, and proof testing figures from when they were actually tested by whatever classification, why don’t they display these figures as we have, surely then you could dispose of manufacturer’s tests and argue about the credibility of the certified tester?

As Far as selling into the US, well we do on a small scale, never the less 5 anchors went to Mexico and the US, in different locations when we sent Dons, “Marketing in the US” before Manson Supreme and Rocna we were selling via a very aggressive “Kiwi” loads of anchors into N.Z., next thing we had Anchor Right N.Z.---US---UK the list goes on, I purchased a factory with him in N.Z. Well we were going to storm the world as far as he was concerned ( this was my big chance ) he opened up my wallet and my family’s hearts and then screwed us dry.

So reasons for not having distributors in many of your countries is from me being so gullible, no fault of our products performance or perception, that my friends is why we are not in your retail shops, END OF, flash marketing company, worldwide Smack, smoke and mirrors, I believe if I had stuck with this slug this is what you would have had from Anchor Right.

Todays markets over your way are more difficult as there are so many claims and new anchor designs streaming onto the market, back 22 years ago when we released the Sarca every anchor design was same old, I do believe if nothing else we inspired in someway new anchor technology.

Marin, how could I forget you, after the fiasco with my marketing guru disaster I was encouraged to come on the TF, I struggle with this type of communication, thank god for spell check, I just need a pop up reminder to spell check. And another called missed words.

Any way we did have many disagreement’s and unknowingly to you-- gave me a crash course in how to deal with not very” constructive criticism”, you must remember this was around bendy shank time, you probably thought here we go again, anyway it is nice to see some of your kind compliments and I thank you for them. Its a great thing really, your combined comments in this discussion has aloud me some fresh inside as to Anchor Rights direction,

I refuse to Manufacture in China, do I need to, we are doing extremely well managing what we have, one must remember we are certified, therefore we cater for small ships, trawlers, many types of work boats weighing up to 300 ton, the list goes on from multihulls to small runabouts, plenty for us, but never say never –if the right opportunity came along to market- Manufacture in the U.S. I am sure my son would look at it.

Regards Rex.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:14 PM   #107
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Good guess Marin.

Djbandi,
Thank you very much.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:14 PM   #108
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As far as I can tell Anchor Right does not pander to beauty nor making cheap products - they only make anchors that are reliable and work. I suspect they might be 'over engineered', but then Rex probably sleeps well at night.

Edit - manyboats - your are most welcome, credit where it is due.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:25 PM   #109
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Kahlenburg to be installed this spring. I've about got the compressor sorted out as I wanted an oversized tank. Plumbing to the desired location is also about sussed out too.
Need to pick your brain on that subject. My horn is pathetic - sounds like a duck in a drainpipe.

Sorry for the thread drift and now, back to our scheduled programming...
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:08 PM   #110
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One thing that effects export / import is the exchange rate of money. Right now one US dollar is worth about 1.07 AUD. That's pretty close to even.

Back to the thread drift. Kahlenberg horns are beautiful and they sound great! I have a big old single trumpet commercial horn at my store. Every so often I hook it to the compressor and wake up the neighborhood. I'd love to have one of the big brass steam whistles they make. I might be able to afford the whistle but the boiler to blow it is out of reach.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #111
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To all the "anchor pushers"...

First off most of my comments are directed at the issue that we are sheep and stupid.

Bad assumption. Many have followed the progression of anchors through the years as closely as possible (obviously the internet has made this much easier but is a recent development). Some have followed all the testings, certifications and problems certain anchors have faced and how those problems have been addressed. While not "in" on the closed door discussions...I don't think much has gone over the "educated public's head".

What is missing in my mind is one thing and pretty much that sums it up. Most of the things I do with my boat I feel like I have some control over. Anchoring is the one thing that no matter how many times you do it there are times when you go to sleep that you just have that funny feeling that tonight could be the night of your first drag.

We all try and think through just current reversal (always a concern), weather, bad set, fouling, poor bottom, etc..etc....but one of those sooner or later can get us and we are not always going to have a live watch (fortunately today we can have an electronic watch to help....but the anchor drag has already started but is hopefully recoverable). Still...not something anyone WANTS to do in the middle of the night.

Well for some of us, our boats are our homes or even just our dreams. We are entrusting them to someone's anchor but in all fairness to mostly our anchoring technique.

Unless an anchor clearly shows itself to be superior to all others, in all situations and is so clearly better that price should be no object and holding your old anchor that's worked forever anyhow would be insane....then getting people to switch is hard.

Even the testing, certifications, personal reviews, anchor literature, etc...etc...that have only to me shown barely incremental successes over other anchors are not nearly enough for me to run right out and buy one particular design. Not when even the "professors of magic" still say how important all the other factors of anchoring are.

Faith in one's anchor is like faith in your religion....an absolute necessity. People that are convinced they are on track and practice it like crazy (both religion and anchoring) will probably have good results.

But there's many out there (both anchors and religions) and there's really no clear sign of which is better...maybe only better for you.

So like what you like...but trying to get people to switch anchors better involve miracles (like religion) because the rest of the time there's no real clear signs out there to make people switch.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:40 AM   #112
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As a longtime pleasure craft power boater (and classic U.S. muscle car owner), being old school in general precepts, I believe in “years tested” “tried n’ true” equipment. Having been in this forum for some time now it has created the first I’ve ever even questioned Danforth design anchors as simply being the best. Eric is “the man” when it comes to tests and stats I’ve seen posted. Many other TF members have had extremely interesting, compelling inputs and “reasons” why one anchor make/design “may” be better than another. I have taken in much of the posted info; appreciating it all!

As it appears psneeld has stated/implied - I believe more than once, (I paraphrase his meaning here): “Taint necessarily the anchor that counts more than the anchor setter’s “anchor setting” capabilities”. IMO – That statement is so true!

That said; I have several anchors aboard my boat. Different sizes with different hook ups for different reasons and bottoms. Each is easily accessible and each works well for the capability I desire it to accomplish. I recently did do and am continuing to do “adjustment” in my multi anchor availability/layout. Yesterday I sold a “golden oldie” 30 lb. Danforth (I still have another one of same size aboard boat). I’m going to soon purchase a Fortress FX-23 (utilizing its 45 degree fluke to shank angle capability for holding in SF Delta loose mud bottoms) and work it into my “aboard boat” anchor cadre (all my anchors are dual-fluke Danforth design).

Soooo… for several reasons, until I see/hear/am-proven-to that one or more of these “new school” anchor designs really, substantially out performs the “old school” Danforth anchor design, that has held my boats firmly in place for decades, I’ll continue with my years tested anchor choice and my (hopefully) well-conceived anchor-setting methods.

Happy Anchor(ing) Daze – Art
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:09 AM   #113
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]

Soooo… for several reasons, until I see/hear/am-proven-to that one or more of these “new school” anchor designs really, substantially out performs the “old school” Danforth anchor design, that has held my boats firmly in place for decades, I’ll continue with my years tested anchor choice and my (hopefully) well-conceived anchor-setting methods.

Happy Anchor(ing) Daze – Art
Art, no doubt the Danforth type anchors are tried and true designs. I have one on our 17' Boston Whaler, Blackfin, dinghy, and as a backup on Moonstruck. They are great for soft bottoms. Not so much on rock or debris loaded bottoms. I have bent several on the Tennessee River system lakes when caught on stumps and roots.

The other problem with them is that they can bring up a really big load of whatever was on the bottom. I like the convex anchors for the area that I am in now, and they come up cleaner. When I go back to the Chesapeake, the Danforth may come back out. I will see how the EX-CEL will do in all kinds of bottoms. After getting this one, I don't anticipate any problems.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:35 AM   #114
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Art, no doubt the Danforth type anchors are tried and true designs. I have one on our 17' Boston Whaler, Blackfin, dinghy, and as a backup on Moonstruck. They are great for soft bottoms. Not so much on rock or debris loaded bottoms. I have bent several on the Tennessee River system lakes when caught on stumps and roots.

The other problem with them is that they can bring up a really big load of whatever was on the bottom. I like the convex anchors for the area that I am in now, and they come up cleaner. When I go back to the Chesapeake, the Danforth may come back out. I will see how the EX-CEL will do in all kinds of bottoms. After getting this one, I don't anticipate any problems.

Don - As usual you are correct in what you say! I look forward to hear your first hand recounts. - Art
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:05 PM   #115
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I’ll continue with my years tested anchor choice and my (hopefully) well-conceived anchor-setting methods.

Happy Anchor(ing) Daze – Art

OK, Art. But with that attitude, you'll never know the joy of a morning shave, using your anchor as a mirror.

Conversely, I tend to risk money on things like independently certified, new-tech engineering. I also own a Popeil Pocket Fisherman and a Ronco Pleasure-matic.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #116
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Yes well certification is something that possibly means nothing to many, as we supply a lot of anchors, some weighing two kilo and plus, certified for survey it is a must.

So no you may not need it and there is still no guarantee your anchor is gold plated --will not fail, regardless there is some value knowing whatever it is you purchase is made to a standard.

As far as trying to convince anyone our anchors are better, doesn’t bother me, at my age I am not the CEO of a major company with share holders and don't at my age to perform.

The great thing about this forum is this, all can freely express their opinion, it is healthy, good for the soul, as even if one does learn something, depending on "who" it is- their mind set will prevent them from agreeing.

Do Our anchors work better, the following doesn't prove anything but its better than nothing.

When the Tsunami hit Phuket, "all three boats" on the original Sarcas anchored in the path of the Tsunami never moved whilst all others-- in its main path were was washed out to sea- some smashed on rocks, one lady- unconscious was dragged aboard a boat anchored on a Sarca and revived. Their story can be found on our web site.

So whilst it is true to a large portion of how one sets their anchor, it would be a hat trick for all three Sarcas not to move due to incompetence, to be honest I like to think that just maybe our Sarca helped save that women’s life.

Any way I am out of here.
Thank you all.
Regards Rex.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:46 PM   #117
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Don't sweat it Art, I'll take one for the team and am willing to be the beta tester for the Aussie hook in the California Delta. Besides, I can't find(what I would consider to be) an attractive way to make my new Fortress FX-17 self deploy on my boat.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:02 PM   #118
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About every 8 years or so I update my car, to be pleasantly surprised by the many improvements over the old one.
I see the appeal and simplicity of a rock trussed in a rope basket dropped off the bow on a hemp rope, but there are advances in anchor design and construction, not just from Australia,to consider.I`m very interested in how Don`s Excel works, not downunder.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:09 PM   #119
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About every 8 years or so I update my car, to be pleasantly surprised by the many improvements over the old one.
I see the appeal and simplicity of a rock trussed in a rope basket dropped off the bow on a hemp rope, but there are advances in anchor design and construction, not just from Australia,to consider.I`m very interested in how Don`s Excel works, not downunder.
Bruce, I am hoping Rex shipped the the northern hemisphere model, so it will set right side up. I'm starting to lose sleep over that issue.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:02 PM   #120
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Yes well certification is something that possibly means nothing to many, as we supply a lot of anchors, some weighing two kilo and plus, certified for survey it is a must.

So no you may not need it and there is still no guarantee your anchor is gold plated --will not fail, regardless there is some value knowing whatever it is you purchase is made to a standard.

As far as trying to convince anyone our anchors are better, doesn’t bother me, at my age I am not the CEO of a major company with share holders and don't at my age to perform.

The great thing about this forum is this, all can freely express their opinion, it is healthy, good for the soul, as even if one does learn something, depending on "who" it is- their mind set will prevent them from agreeing.

Do Our anchors work better, the following doesn't prove anything but its better than nothing.

When the Tsunami hit Phuket, "all three boats" on the original Sarcas anchored in the path of the Tsunami never moved whilst all others-- in its main path were was washed out to sea- some smashed on rocks, one lady- unconscious was dragged aboard a boat anchored on a Sarca and revived. Their story can be found on our web site.

So whilst it is true to a large portion of how one sets their anchor, it would be a hat trick for all three Sarcas not to move due to incompetence, to be honest I like to think that just maybe our Sarca helped save that women’s life.

Any way I am out of here.
Thank you all.
Regards Rex.
.
Rex

Thank you for posting those compelling items about your Sarcas anchors. I and I'm sure others will keep that in mind as we may be improving our anchor cadre. I very much look forward to hearing reports from Don and Matt. Others have already well applauded your anchors. They are on top of my list if/when I decide to do major revamp on my boat's central anchor at the bow sprit.

Cheers and good luck in sales! - Art
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