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Old 11-10-2012, 12:19 AM   #1
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Anchor size, big is better?

I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.

However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.

I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:36 AM   #2
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Bigger is better as long as your windlass can handle it, fits on the boat/anchor roller, and it doesn't upset the boat's balance.

My present Bruce-like is adequate for the protected waters I sail. Otherwise I'd get something bigger.

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:40 AM   #3
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In my opinion no, but size is a more important consideration than weight. Assuming some realities like your anchor needs to fit on your boat, you and your windlass need to be able to handle it, and so on, I think the number one consideration in anchors for boats our size is design. A very close number two in my opinion is size, and number three is weight.

If weight were the number one consideration the Fortress wouldn't work.

If size was the number one consideration we'd all be trying to put anchors on our boats that were physically too big for them.

So given the limitations of just how large an anchor will fit on your boat, that puts design at the top of my list, which is the primary reason we changed from a Bruce to a similar weight and size Rocna. The Rocna is eleven pounds heavier than the Bruce but as far as I'm concerned a mere eleven pounds is not going to make a squat-all difference to the holding power of an anchor. But the design of the Rocna (and Sarca) is in my opinion and experience vastly superior to a Bruce in the sizes most of us use on the kind and sizes of boats we have and is why the Rocna and Sarca set and hold so much better than a Bruce of similar size and weight.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca, Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.
However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.
I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?
Now Andy, you are really yanking some chains there, so you deserve all yez gets.
However, jokes aside, and assuming you seriously want to know...the answer is...yes and no...
Y'asked for that, didn't yah. Anyway...like Marin said....so don't waste money on a heavier CQR...
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:24 AM   #5
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If you're not an anchor techie, weight is your friend. Did you ever try to set a Fortress in a 5 kt current...your boat length (or more) of chain will find the bottom well before your anchor and that Fortress will skate rather than set? It ain't much good if it can't find the bottom.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:52 AM   #6
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While we don't use our Fortress FX23 as our main anchor it's sized to be. If we had to set it in a current it seems logical to simply control your rearward drift with the engines. Just because the water's scooting across the bottom doesn't mean your boat or its anchor have to.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:10 AM   #7
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Now Andy, you are really yanking some chains there, so you deserve all yez gets.
However, jokes aside, and assuming you seriously want to know...the answer is...yes and no...
Y'asked for that, didn't yah. Anyway...like Marin said....so don't waste money on a heavier CQR...
You did that on purpose. Still I supposed I deserved it.

So......IF I was considering buying a new anchor and say (sigh) had a Sarca in mind, given the boat is about 24,000lb, would I go heavier than my present 44lb anchor.

And would you give me a discount Peter.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:30 AM   #8
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Red face

I've got a Fortress as a secondary anchor, but hate the thought of ever using it. Its wiggling will pinch my hand, it will bring up lots of sticky mud, and I won't trust it resetting when tidal currents change four times a day.

Gimme a Bruce any day.

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Old 11-10-2012, 02:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
You did that on purpose. Still I supposed I deserved it.
So......IF I was considering buying a new anchor and say (sigh) had a Sarca in mind, given the boat is about 24,000lb, would I go heavier than my present 44lb anchor.
And would you give me a discount Peter.
Andy...it depends..... .......he..he..he
No..seriously, it does depend..on whether you wanted a fancier looking one, eg the Excel, or a more agricultural one, like mine, the Super Sarca. However although ideally it would weigh a bit more than 44lb, (my #6 is 49lb = 22kg, the weight required is not too different between them - theoretically a bit lighter for the Excel I believe, so about 25kgs (55lb) would be about right, but check it out for yourself here.
Looks like a #7 would be about right for the Super S (25kg) for your tonnage...actually, belay that, as they say...you might well get away with a #6 like mine in the super looking at the sizing list, but if you wanted to take a belt and braces approach, (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the 7 would be great - you'd never move - if your winch is ok with that weight, which I assume it is, if you were toying with a 60lb CQR...
Super SARCA Anchor No 7 - Galvanised Anchors - anchorright.com.au
or if you went Excel.....a #5 looks about right (22kg, ie same weight as the Super #6), assuming ~ 12m and 12 tonne
SARCA in Action - anchorright.com.au

Personally, for mine, the Excel lacks the tripping slot, and I like that feature, but each to his own, and no Marin, we'll let you off explaining why it's not a good feature this time - Andy knows the pros and cons by now I think...

So, good luck with that...
Whichever one you got you would not regret. Benn has an Excel Sarca and has tested it thoroughly and totally sold on it. As you observed, I swear by the Super S, although one would need one a bit heavier than the 2kg you quote for the Queen Mary, or was that Elizabeth - whatever - you would need a #50, (if they made it), for them....
And, no, sorry, I can't give a discount as I don't have any personal connection or investment, truly - I just like 'em....
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:04 AM   #10
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The question is "bigger what" and the answer is bigger flukes. From there it gets complicated. Many parts of an anchor act as resistance to dragging such as the stock rods on a Danforth and the roll bars on RB anchors when they get or if they get . As I see it weight is mostly there to help get the anchor to set and fluke area is mostly there to hold the boat within the ability of the bottom to do so. The angle of the flukes in the bottom that is highly related to what anchor people call "throat angle", the scope used, the sharpness of the flukes and obviously even other factors will get the anchor set but basically fluke area will hold the boat on station. The biggest factor has nothing to do w the anchor at all and that is the sea floor or bottom. By far the biggest variable there is.
On another thread I posted not long ago an example of bigger is better is taken to the extreme w a 500# Navy anchor on a boat about 48' long.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:53 PM   #11
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Andy, since you've received 5 opinions from 5 people, I'm sure you won't mind a sixth. The design of an anchor is more or less efficient compared to others depending on weight. My 44# Bruce on a 36 sailboat dragged like it wasn't anchored in Hospital Bay and off Lahaina, but worked pretty well otherwise. My current 176# Claw seems to be completely immovable regardless of what the wind and sea state is, and I feel I have tested that theory in real time more than once.

On your boat, a 44# Sarca or Manson would probably work just fine, and certainly better than the Bruce, but if your windlass and pocketbook and boat can handle something bigger, get it. There is absolutely zero rationale for a lighter anchor except I can't afford or can't life a bigger one. The one exception to this, as Marin noted is the Fortress which compensates for light weight by the design of its flukes, which design also has a tendency of picking up rocks, which renders it somewhat less useful, so I guess I wouldn't feel comfortable with a Fortress as a primary, but it makes a heck of a backup.

If you can't afford the difference between a bigger and smaller anchor, you probably can't afford the boat either, so that leaves can you lift it. I'd steer away from the current crop of Rocnas simply because they are not made of the same grade of steel as the Sarca and Manson. If I walked by your boat and saw an 80# Manson on it, I'd think that you knew what you were doing, equipment wise. If I saw a 22# Sarca, I'd assume you didn't anchor much. If I saw a 44# Bruce I'd wonder if your's dragged like mine.

So my 2 cents is get the biggest anchor you can lift and because of the size of your boat the modern designs mentioned above are by far your best choice.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:30 PM   #12
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Andy, Rex who runs Sarca said a no. 5 Super Sarca might be ok for the IG36 but was at the extreme of capacity, no.6 was a safe choice. Seeing all the anchors displayed together, the big jump in size/proportions/weight is between #5 and #6. The 6 is still in the lounge room at home (doesn`t everyone keep an anchor there?) , I will fit it while alongside before we leave the shipwrights after the deck work. Heavy and awkward to lift, take care moving it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other.

However, what I would like to know,in plain English, is size the major consideration in anchoring safely.

I have a 44lb CQR, am I better of with say a 60lb CQR or whatever, Or is it with my boat the 60lb CQR will offer no more holding power than my current 44lb model.

I know Peter will say a 2lb Sarca will hold the QE2 in an Atlantic gale, and Eric may say it depends on the mineral composition of the sea bed and the reproductive cycles of the local sea urchins, but all things considered is bigger better?
If you have twins then yes. A single, then no..........
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #14
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Forklift,
In a word YES.

But that dosn't take into consideration the weight of the ground tackle and how well you can deploy and retrieve it or the sea bottom you will usually anchor in but if you want to break it down to one element of most importance in a commercially available anchor on an unknown bottom yes .. size.

"I tend to get a head ache following threads here.I know there are some universal truths in this forum, Peter really owns Sarca,Eric owns more than 50% of the worlds known anchor reserves,I need an hour or two to digest Marin's replies and Mark will post a picture or two of something or other."

Many posts will be posted before anybody says anything more accurate, funny and revealing as what you just said ..... and I hope that dosn't give you a headache.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:30 PM   #15
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Andy...it depends..... .......he..he..he
No..seriously, it does depend..on whether you wanted a fancier looking one, eg the Excel, or a more agricultural one, like mine, the Super Sarca. However although ideally it would weigh a bit more than 44lb, (my #6 is 49lb = 22kg, the weight required is not too different between them - theoretically a bit lighter for the Excel I believe, so about 25kgs (55lb) would be about right, but check it out for yourself here.
Looks like a #7 would be about right for the Super S (25kg) for your tonnage...actually, belay that, as they say...you might well get away with a #6 like mine in the super looking at the sizing list, but if you wanted to take a belt and braces approach, (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the 7 would be great - you'd never move - if your winch is ok with that weight, which I assume it is, if you were toying with a 60lb CQR...
Super SARCA Anchor No 7 - Galvanised Anchors - anchorright.com.au
or if you went Excel.....a #5 looks about right (22kg, ie same weight as the Super #6), assuming ~ 12m and 12 tonne
SARCA in Action - anchorright.com.au

Personally, for mine, the Excel lacks the tripping slot, and I like that feature, but each to his own, and no Marin, we'll let you off explaining why it's not a good feature this time - Andy knows the pros and cons by now I think...

So, good luck with that...
Whichever one you got you would not regret. Benn has an Excel Sarca and has tested it thoroughly and totally sold on it. As you observed, I swear by the Super S, although one would need one a bit heavier than the 2kg you quote for the Queen Mary, or was that Elizabeth - whatever - you would need a #50, (if they made it), for them....
And, no, sorry, I can't give a discount as I don't have any personal connection or investment, truly - I just like 'em....
Pete
I agree brother! I'm a Sarca man also. I have 1 x Sarca Excel for the bow and 1 x Super Sarca for the stern if/when required. I wouldn't waste my time on any other crap out there. Get a certified Australian made anchor!

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Old 11-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #16
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I'd steer away from the current crop of Rocnas simply because they are not made of the same grade of steel as the Sarca and Manson.
I hate to agree with this statement because I happen to think the Rocna is the best all-round small-vessel anchor design out there with the Sarca a close second, but were we in the market for an anchor today I would be pretty leery of getting one given the gyrations the product went through as a result of its manufacturing shift to China (ours was made years before this unfortunate compromise occurred). Since Sarcas are so far not obtainable in this area I would be inclined to go with a Manson and not use the slot.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:22 AM   #17
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If you have twins then yes. A single, then no..........
Forklift, that's bein' plain perfidious....
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #18
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NO anchor works "best" in EVERY type bottom.

Size dies count or we would all be using 12lb Danforths.

Our solution is 3 slightly oversized 60 lb each anchors for the bow.

A Danforth and a Bruce , and a CQR for the grass and rocky areas.

2 are on the bow roller , the 3rd is lashed on deck.

All are set with a trip line which is moved to whichever will be working.

When 60 lb is not enough a second 60 is deployed by veering .

A 20H or 35H stern anchor is also usually deployed , even for just O'night.

Under 1 min to set and 3 or 4 to retrieve , makes me sleep better.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #19
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Fred your'e worse than me about old fashioned stuff. "out w the old in w the new" ... your eyes prolly don't even focus on doze words.

"your fathers Oldsmobile" would prolly be just fine for either of us but I do like many modern things like my XYZ anchor and my Volkswagen Golf (although the car is 12 years old). And your computer is obviously modern. I do like it when folks bring out older stuff that others wouldn't be caught dead with because they aren't the latest gimmick. A huge chunck of our population frequently uses things just because they are new and popular just assuming that they are better than anything that came before. The pop culture we live in often to mostly dosn't recognize the real value of things or activities and only sees the hype. So 3 cheers for your old anchors and the fact that they are serving you well.

Re your opening statement though what bottom do you think the SARCA or Rocna wouldn't work as well as most any other anchor?
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:16 PM   #20
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