Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-08-2016, 08:13 PM   #121
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

__________________
Advertisement

__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 10:55 PM   #122
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,789
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Pete, Rex (of Anchor Right) is one step ahead of you. As I write this, a Super Sarca #5 is enroute to me.
Yep, I am in Washington State, USA. A drive to Florida is a bit longer than I am willing to make!
Cheers,
Steve
Steve, far be it for me to gainsay Rex, but are you sure it's a #5 he is sending. I have a #6 (~44lb), and my boat is only about 8-9 tonne. I would have thought you'd need that or even the #7 for your size, weight, and windage.

Perhaps when he said 5 he was thinking of the Excel, but you have one of those. It does need a number less than the SS for the same weigh of boat, I think. Guess you'll soon find out.

Regards,
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 11:18 PM   #123
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Pete, I double checked my correspondence and It is indeed a #5 that Rex is sending. It's about 35 pounds. Just a guess, but I recon that Rex is looking to show that his smaller anchor can "stand up" to the big boys.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 11:19 PM   #124
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Here is the Fortress FX-16 undergoing the "Deep Set" test.

First try was at the requisite 3.5 to 1 scope. The anchor did not release even under maximum thrust of 910 pounds. However, the anchor had a continuous, very slow drag that I feel would have continued indefinitely.

Second try was at 5 to 1 scope. The anchor moved a total of about 2 anchor lengths and was nicely buried when it stopped moving. A very impressive performance of this 10 pound anchor.

Note: The Fortress website specifies that a minimum of 5 to 1 scope is to be used with their anchors.

Steve

__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2016, 11:21 PM   #125
Moderator Emeritus
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

Eric will be green with envy at that collection! Actually, I`m envious too.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 08:02 AM   #126
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Essex, Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,088
That last video demonstrates a good lesson. When an anchor drags for many feet, don't count on it holding. It has probably picked up too much sea bed to be effective. Once I found an old t-shirt wrapped around the flukes.


So pick it up, clean it off and try again.


David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 08:11 AM   #127
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,789
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Pete, I double checked my correspondence and It is indeed a #5 that Rex is sending. It's about 35 pounds. Just a guess, but I recon that Rex is looking to show that his smaller anchor can "stand up" to the big boys.

Steve
Ok, right, well, this could be interesting to all, because that size is definitely a bit under ideal by conventional wisdom for your boat. So, watch this thread, eh.?
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 08:25 AM   #128
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
That last video demonstrates a good lesson. When an anchor drags for many feet, don't count on it holding. It has probably picked up too much sea bed to be effective. Once I found an old t-shirt wrapped around the flukes.


So pick it up, clean it off and try again.


David
David, how can you be so sure that the problem with Fortress (in the first attempt) is not simply that the scope was too short?

After all, the Fortress Anchor website states very clearly to not use scope less than 5 to 1.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 10:07 AM   #129
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Essex, Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,088
Oh, I have no doubt that the short scope caused the anchor to drag. I was simply noting that after dragging for many feet, anchors can pick up a lot of sea bed that will make it even more difficult to set and hold on the next try.


David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 10:24 AM   #130
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
I now see the point you are making and I agree.

That glob of seabed that was attached to the Fortress after the slow, high power drag was by far the most tenacious of any fouling that I have seen. The glob was probably 2 X the weight of the anchor.

And yes, the anchor would have had a very hard time re-setting with that impediment still attached.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 11:41 AM   #131
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,074
Steve,
Yup .. I agree .. five very fine anchors. A lot of anchor power there. Most of the time looking at that Spade it's hard to try and concieve of a better anchor. But lots of machines in this world that look that perfect are bested as time goes on. But how good can an anchor get? How close to optimum are the new anchors? How close were we in 1938 when the Danforth came out. And how far have we actually come? But if we're close to the best that can be achieved one can just pick their favorite and go boldly forth. Hmmmm .. Isn't that what we're doing? But some of the "favorites" don't seem very close to ideal. And many look very different than others.
Many of us are using anchors over 40 years old and by that fact one could assume we are near the point of perfection but what's to be gained by upgrading to the most super anchor one can find. Not much in the minds of most as very few upgrade to the max.

But Steve .. one would think if those five anchors in post 121 were near perfection they would look almost the same. Evolution always leads to sameness .. or no difference at all.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 12:28 PM   #132
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
........ Evolution always leads to sameness .. or no difference at all.
If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.

I believe that as long as there is strong economic demand for anchors, improvements will never stop occurring.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 12:45 PM   #133
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.

I believe that as long as there is strong economic demand for anchors, improvements will never stop occurring.

Steve
I thought so too....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Evolution is change in the heritable traits of biological populations over successive generations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including the levels of species, individual organisms, and molecules.[2]
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 03:15 PM   #134
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,447
**MAJOR THREAD DRIFT ALERT**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.
But...there is more than one ecosystem placing different demands on different populations of organisms, which leads to an abundance of species.

The two eyeballs, nose & mouth end, four appendages and a digestive system in the middle, with the waste product disposal and reproductive bits at the other end seems to be a pretty popular design concept hinting at a common ancestor, no?

Towards Eric's point...ever compare the bill of a Flamingo to the mouth of a baleen Whale? Two entirely different species coming to the same conclusion for filtering small organisms out of water.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 03:42 PM   #135
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,074
Steve, psneeld,
Indeed biological evolution starts form very simple and leads to the very complex and diverse. And form your link psneeld it appears the word evolution applies only to biology.

But it's not so. Mechanical product evolution weeds out the less than perfect solutions and eventially only one solution remains. A #2 shovel hasn't changed since I was born and aircraft for transporting people over long distances all look the same. But the airplane is still evolving. Technology will advance a notch and the airplane will experience change again.

But I'd say evolution of anchors for pleasure boats are definitely evolving. The fact that quite a few different styles/types look quite different indicates that perfection has not arrived. It may have a lot to do w the fact that the perfect seabed is as varied as the anchor designs. Some people thought pasionately that the Rocna was perfect but it came to pass that it wasn't.

But unlike biological evolution anchor evolution will IMO evolve until most all anchors look just about alike and are of the same type. However I could be wrong in that the variables like boat/vessel size, bottom types and other variables may need the perfect anchor for all those varying needs or missions. Like dirt bike road bike ect. Or do you think that the anchor will evolve into a good enough for everything device that speciality anchors will not be needed? Some here already thought that had arrived but many here still think that more than one anchor type is the only real smart way to go.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 05:26 PM   #136
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,590
Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!

I do luv using Fortress FX-23 on our 34' Tollycraft!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 05:56 PM   #137
Moderator Emeritus
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!...
Indeed! And I like the testing is consistent and seems completely objective.
One thought, Rex told me a constantly used anchorage area can have a disturbed bottom surface offering degraded holding. I think you use one anchoring area to make the test equal for all products tested, which makes sense, but wondered what you thought about the usage bottom effect.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 07:21 PM   #138
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
But unlike biological evolution anchor evolution will IMO evolve until most all anchors look just about alike and are of the same type. However I could be wrong in that the variables like boat/vessel size, bottom types and other variables may need the perfect anchor for all those varying needs or missions. Like dirt bike road bike ect. Or do you think that the anchor will evolve into a good enough for everything device that speciality anchors will not be needed? Some here already thought that had arrived but many here still think that more than one anchor type is the only real smart way to go.
Eric, Good points about the difference between biology and technology.

I think humans have generally been very poor at predicting future changes. Imagine telling the people living in 1900 that in 70 years, men will walk on the moon and only little girls will ride horses. They would have thought you were out of your mind.

I bet that electronics will eventually make their way into anchors. A live camera feed would certainly be a welcome addition. Maybe have pressure sensors located across the fluke? Or a sensor that gives a report of seabed composition? How about robotics that change the shape of the anchor as it drags? I know that all sounds crazy but not as crazy as many things we consider normal today like relying on a little handheld box that does our navigating via satellite (try explaining that one to an 19th century sea captain).

No one really NEEDS a better anchor (or any sort of pleasure boat for that matter). Market forces (I want a new toy!) will be the driver of future anchor improvements.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 07:24 PM   #139
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!

I do luv using Fortress FX-23 on our 34' Tollycraft!
Thanks, Art.
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 07:28 PM   #140
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

Good grief. How many anchors does one need?!
__________________

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012