Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2016, 11:11 AM   #361
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Don'
Gotta be married to do that in OZ as I recall ....
But perhaps they are ....
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:45 PM   #362
Moderator Emeritus
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
....there is something I love about looking out through the murk in a bit of nasty seaway and seeing that businesslike roll bar, proudly up the front, looking a bit like a large gun-sight, or a metal figurehead, and one that says, "don't mess with me, you'll come off second best". Not that I ram people...
For enhanced threat effect, find a way to mount the Super Sarca (or any "similar" type anchor) with the triangular "blade" pointing forward.
We could be getting a tad off course here. Time to drop anchor? One that holds well, of course.
__________________

__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 08:57 AM   #363
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,778
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
Pete, I think you and your Sarca need to get a room!
You mean join Mark and his Coot, Don..?
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 10:46 AM   #364
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
You mean join Mark and his Coot, Don..?
Something like that.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 06:58 AM   #365
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 09:43 AM   #366
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,442
You da Man!

Are you thinking about giving the Manson a 'down turned' toe? I bet that might be enough to get the tip to start engaging with the bottom when its being dragged on its side.

How far north are you planning on going this summer?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 10:29 AM   #367
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Steve,
Now you're really having fun.

Cutting off the upper slot material was my next mod. Beat me to it. But I didn't know the strength of the metal so assumed I could make the shank weaker. And I've got too many other projects ... working on my Wabasto fuel system now. Stupid me I picked the wrong jug and poured some anti-freeze in the tank .. then (still in the dark) ran the heater. Taking the whole fuel system apart and cleaning. Got the tank spotless and going to the boat to deal w the rest.

A month or two ago I cut of about 80% of the heart shaped thing on the fluke tip. See pics. Manson (I decided) thought they needed a bit extra surface area at the tip and I thought that's one of the reasons they scored so high on short scope. The Same thinking led me to the wide chisel tip on my ex XYZ. Also wanted to get the fluke tip edge at a more advantageous angle to penetrate the bottom more aggressively.

Now I'll cut the upper slot part off my Supreme/Hogback shank. Thanks for the research help.

I think your next mod should be to flatten the fluke curvature. I suspect that Manson put more curvature in the fluke to accommodate the mounting points for the roll bar. At this time I believe that to be mistake. The substrate compacts itself between the turned up fluke and the shank .. not the RB and the shank .. as your post implies. But That would take some time to do as the RB will be involved.

Steve,
Notice the heart shaped tip in pic #1 and it's near absence in pic #2.
As to pic #3 it shows the extreme (appropriate for this anchor) hollow area below the greater part of the shank and the "sharpness" of the corner of the tip when the anchor is on it's side. I suspect (as I did w the SARCA) that the anchor usually set sitting straight up .. not on it's side like a Rocna ect. However I suspect that the XYZ sets typically on it's fluke bottom.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF1851 copy 2.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	110.4 KB
ID:	50300   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF2093 copy 2.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	210.4 KB
ID:	50301   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0264 copy 2.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	101.5 KB
ID:	50302  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 10:42 AM   #368
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,448
Our newly installed 40 kg Vulcan has performed superbly as compared to the Bruce it replaced.
- dropped without having to manually nudge it
- retrieved effortlessly especially when coming over non pulpit bow roller
- set quickly in Ganges Harbour mud
- when doing a backing down test it dug in and held well
- in changing direction 180 degrees at least 6 times it did not budge
- I'm sold

Priced right, fits, everybody looks at it and no ugly roll bar.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 10:47 AM   #369
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Murray,
I personally think a turned down fluke tip is not an asset for an anchor setting on it's side. The fluke tip bent/turned up not down would be best for on it's side performance. However the Excel dos'nt seem to suffer from the down turned tip. Can't explain that except that ARA may have started w the turned down tip and noticed it worked good anyway and retained the feature sort of a brand identity thing.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 10:55 AM   #370
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Murry:

Since the anchor drags with a severe list, down turning the toe will not point it 'down' much. If/when I continue, I might try and create a tip that has a horizontal chisel shape (horizontal when the anchor is tipped on it's side).

So far, I have a just a one week trip planned in June. Probably won't make it past the gulf islands. Later in the summer or fall I would like to go further - we'll see how it turns out.

Eric:

Flattening the fluke might be taking things a little too far. I do not want to turn the anchor into a cobbled mess.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 11:39 AM   #371
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,461
Good to hear about how well the Vulcan has been working for you. The price of the Vulcan is sure good, compared to the Spade. I am kind of waiting to see what the cost of the Sarca Excel might be if they get a NA Distributor.

I will need an anchor without a roll bar.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 12:21 PM   #372
Senior Member
 
Rebel112r's Avatar
 
City: Birch bay wa
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Rogue
Vessel Model: North Pacific 42
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 254
Dhay. Get a big enough anchor and it will fit over the sprit.
Rebel112r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 01:02 PM   #373
Veteran Member
 
City: Anacortes
Country: United States
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 62
Have you thought about filling in the hollow on the sides of the blade? Basically making it a straight line from the tip back to the widest point where the roll bar attaches. The blade looks narrow forward. When the anchor is on it's side, (3 points, shank tip, blade tip and roll bar end) this hollow is really reducing the blade area forward. Filling in that hollow would increase tip weight and blade area forward. Also noticed how long the shank is (front to back) where it attaches to the blade. When the anchor is upright you don't care, when the anchor is on it's side the shank is more parallel the bottom. You wonder if sometimes when the anchor is on it's side that the shank is sort of skidding along the bottom making it harder to get penetration. I wonder in filling in that hollow and just getting that area down into the bottom when the anchor is on it's side would help the anchor get upright quicker
sean9c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 01:23 PM   #374
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Sean, I believe the purpose of the 'hollow' in the side of the fluke is to place MORE weight on the tip. Filling in the hollow would possibly make matters worse, not better.

Also (and I should have made this clear initially), I do not want to substantially change the Manson Supreme. The anchor is an excellent design that performs brilliantly in many ways. I wish to ONLY make small 'tweaks' that do not negatively affect the great properties of the anchor.

Rather than make large modifications to the Manson Supreme, I would prefer to develop an entirely new anchor.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 02:18 PM   #375
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Dave,
When people use an anchor they usually only find out how well it works for them. Basically under benign conditions. Tom (you seem to be adressing him however you didn't say so) has used a Bruce for many years in Canada and SE Alaska. And has recently expressed his satisfaction w the Bruce. The Vulcan performing well for Tom on a few occasions is not much of a test of performance ... Other than the ability to set and his Bruce did well at that for years.

That said I like the Vulcan a lot and could possibly buy one if I liked the company more but these are the guys that gave us mild steel shanks a short time ago. If Manson's, Excel's ect ect were not availible it would be different but a company w an honesty record that bad is to be avoided in my book. But lots of people are still buying Exon gas.

So Steve,
When are we going to see the new Panope anchor? BruceK has been telling me for years to quit modifying others products and design my own anchor. I actlally am leaning a bit that way now but have several more mods planed for the Supreme and XYZ.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 02:26 PM   #376
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Dave,
When people use an anchor they usually only find out how well it works for them. Basically under benign conditions. Tom (you seem to be adressing him however you didn't say so) has used a Bruce for many years in Canada and SE Alaska. And has recently expressed his satisfaction w the Bruce. The Vulcan performing well for Tom on a few occasions is not much of a test of performance ... Other than the ability to set and his Bruce did well at that for years.
Good points of course, but even well done tests are a limited representation of how the anchors will be used. Steve's tests are great, but still only representative of those sea bed and water conditions. Having said that, even though testing is not perfect, it is better than anecdotal reports.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 02:29 PM   #377
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Dave ...... A lot better.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 02:47 PM   #378
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,936
Goes to show you anyone with a welder is an anchor maker...

Why worry about certs and all that...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160325_192636_resized_1.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	70.5 KB
ID:	50304   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160325_192645_resized_1.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	109.1 KB
ID:	50305  
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 02:55 PM   #379
Senior Member
 
Panope's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Panope
Vessel Model: Colvin Saugeen Witch, Aluminum
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 279
Eric, Do not hold your breath!

My motivation to make an anchor is for my own personal hobby interest. Since there is no (ok, not much) desire to mass produce or to make money, the design could use 'inefficient' construction technique (only need to make one). This means I could potentially come up with something substantially different than what is currently massed produced.

The problem is, I have not yet dreamed up a new or novel concept (believe me, I am trying). I have little motivation to simply re-create an existing design.

The ultimate goal would be to design an anchor that is better than ALL of the anchors that I currently possess. A very tall and arrogant ambition, I would say. Certainly, the makers of the best anchors have devoted great portions of their lives to their craft and I am just an anchor 'newbie' by comparison.

I do realize that I am in the somewhat unique position of being able to quickly test (and compare) prototype anchor setting performance. To me, that is half the battle of anchor development.

Steve
__________________
If I visualize my boat without a mast, I see a trawler.
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 07:24 PM   #380
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,052
Steve,
The designers of the 1952 Buick could have said "hey, they've been building Buicks for fifty years so how can we improve of that?" ......

But indeed a lot of good minds came before us. The designer of the XYZ is/was on the right track by minimizing the parts not directly involved holding the boat. Like the shank. The first XYZ I had (the first on the market (that I know of)) had a very serious setting problem that the current Extreme does not. My next mod for that anchor is to widen the center of the fluke and make my chisel point narrower.
As to the Supreme .. flatening it out some would be good but I need to go into the think tank and see if I can figure out if that would be likely to jeopardize the setting performance. And I intend to re-do the fabrication on top of the shank .. making it shorter .. Not as tall. But if I cut out the upper slot bar as you did (and I intend to) I'll just have to do it twice. My Supreme is already light on the top because of the RB removal. Taking weight out of the upper shank will do that as well of course. Fun stuff.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012