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Old 03-22-2016, 01:15 AM   #321
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The Mantus looks relatively reasonable in terms of cost. I have been using a stainless CQR copy on my 40 foot sailboat. I have had a few times where it has been difficult to set, but I have mostly anchored in areas with pretty easy bottoms. There are large current shifts here, and I do loose a bit of sleep at night checking to see that the anchor has handled the current change OK in the middle of the night. As I expand my cruising range, I would prefer something that sets and resets a bit more reliably.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:08 AM   #322
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Dave, talk to Rex when the time comes. I think he sharpens the pencil to take into account shipping, and he may have done the hard yards on finding competitive shipping.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:44 PM   #323
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Great work Steve. All good information, and clearly there are several anchors there that would be a perfectly reasonable choice for anyone, and clearly several better not used as a main, but maybe as a stern or back-up anchor, and...dare I say it, one or two best left out altogether now.

I have always been upfront re my liking for the Super Sarca, based on many years to varied bottom use, and your test supports that, especially as it was a bit of an orphan in being a size at least smaller than ideal for your boat, yet still held up well. However, I can certainly understand your personal selection of the Spade.

You know what I'm going got say next, and please feel no pressure whatsoever, because what you've accomplished has been a bit of a marathon, but all that remains in my view is the Sarca trip slot test. Clearly you were influenced against the slot by the Manson's slot performance, which is completely understandable, and the only reason I am bothering to pursue this issue at all is because my experience says the slot and its properly selected and installed shackle, would not misbehave as the Manson's did, and because it is an issue worth clarifying once and for all.

I say this because certain posters on here has repeatedly criticised the fact it might trip under dangerous circumstances, (largely based on heresy and third hand stories), and because in order to be able to deploy the controlled trip mechanism, and save potential loss of the anchor, one needs to have the chain attached to the slot. Once the anchor is fouled it is too late to alter that.

If anyone has tried to change anchors, or in this case from one fixing point to another, especially after it has not been disturbed for some time, the shackles are very hard to undo, and not the thing you want to have on in a seaway on a dark and rainy night. The fact the Super Sarca has the bolt which can be installed or removed quite easily, either opening or locking off the slot is a great idea, but this still necessitates one being omniscient enough to anticipate when a foul-up might occur. Murphy's Law says otherwise.

So, because of this fact, is why I feel it a pity if folk are put off using the slot, based on heresy and inaccurate/insufficient evidence, and your testing method is the one way this might be put to bed.

So...some time in the future...when you are sufficiently rested from your video labours, and becoming a bit bored even, and the urge takes you to do another anchor test, or even muck around with yet a new camera suspension idea, please, pretty please, do those same 3 : ! scope tests with an open slot, (no bolt), with reverse current/wind direction, etc, on the Sarca, so we can all see what happens, once and for all..?
Peter,

Ask and you shall receive. Not sure this will satisfy you questions about the Rock Slot but it will certainly establish the SARCA is a tremendously reliable re-setting anchor.

The Manson, not so much.

Steve

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Old 03-23-2016, 10:40 PM   #324
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Terrific research, and a real contribution to the endless anchor threads that seem sometimes to be based on opinion, not data.

Looking forward to meeting up with you in P.T. to perhaps look at performance differences with heavier ground tackle.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:14 PM   #325
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Thank you Steve. That will be comforting next anchoring with the S/Sarca.
I have anchored with it many times, slot active (ie not bolt blocked). Typically wind reverses from onshore to offshore overnight, here causing the boat to change position 180 degrees. Despite waking with the boat heading 180 deg. different, I don`t believe our position has altered other than by virtue of the wind change. I have never had reason to suspect drag occurred during the rotation process, which bears out your testing.
In fairness, my previous (now backup) CQR anchor performed similarly way in overnight wind/boat direction reversal. However, I`m sure the Sarca initial set is faster and more reliable than the CQR.
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:57 AM   #326
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Thank you Steve. What your tests confirm is, (like Bruce's), my own experience over about ten years of use. It is no surprise therefore, but gratifying, and also explains why reports of anchor tripping at awkward moments reported by some others, were never attributed to the Sarca, but only ever the Manson. I was still skeptical, but now I accept it can and does happen with the Manson, so clearly there are subtle but important structural differences which make the Manson rock slot best reserved for anchorages where fouling is likely. To be fair, in most circumstances it is still a good anchor.

The Sarca clearly works differently, so owners can happily use the slot...and Marin, if you see this...looks like we were both right.

Thanks again Steve, and thanks to Rex of Anchor right for supplying it for the test. If this was tennis, I guess we'd be saying..."Game, set, and match. Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys."
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:17 AM   #327
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Who would have thought that no one would lend Steve a brand "R" to test after all this time?
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:28 AM   #328
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Eric,

So far, I've only seen pictures of the Vulcan. You are right - its very curvy. I would need to see it on my boat to make a final decision about the looks but it does look pretty good.

Sadly, my offer to Canada Metals to test their anchor(s) did not bear any fruit.

Steve
Steve

Like others, I echo a strong hurrah. We just had a new 40 kg Vulcan installed and will be trying it out in BC during the next few weeks. My initial comparisons will center on ease of retrieval up and over the bow roller vs the Bruce it replaced.

And yes, it does look good. I know Canada Metals well and have guarded faith in their QA/QC. I hope to scratch and gouge it unmercifully though, just like the Bruce it replaced - which served us surprisingly well given the anti Bruce lobby. Maybe a bigger Bruce keeps the setter happier?
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:00 PM   #329
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Terrific research, and a real contribution to the endless anchor threads that seem sometimes to be based on opinion, not data.

Looking forward to meeting up with you in P.T. to perhaps look at performance differences with heavier ground tackle.
Thanks Delfin,

I agree that a peek at a larger anchor will be very interesting.

After we test your big stuff, and if we have time, it might also be good to use Delfin to apply extreme setting force to my smaller anchors. If we are lucky, we might even break something!

Steve
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:07 PM   #330
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Who would have thought that no one would lend Steve a brand "R" to test after all this time?
High Wire, I have been offered 2 Rocna anchors. Both are 35 pounds so not the best choice for comparing to the 45 pounders that I have been testing. One of the anchors belongs to my next door neighbor but it is attached to his boat and therefore not terribly convenient. The other is 1 hour away by car.

Lets just say that I am holding out for an easy and correctly sized example.

Steve
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:07 PM   #331
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Quote:
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High Wire, I have been offered 2 Rocna anchors. Both are 35 pounds so not the best choice for comparing to the 45 pounders that I have been testing. One of the anchors belongs to my next door neighbor but it is attached to his boat and therefore not terribly convenient. The other is 1 hour away by car.

Lets just say that I am holding out for an easy and correctly sized example.

Steve
Hmmmmm....Steve, wasn't the Super Sarca you tested only 35 lbs..?
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #332
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Pete, Correct. The Sarca is 35lbs.. That was Rex's decision. He had is reasons, among them was the higher cost of shipping a larger anchor.

Steve
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:50 PM   #333
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To test holding power and in some ways other elements of anchor performance Steve using smaller anchor makes more sense to me than larger. Fifteen to 25lb anchors would probably work better and reveal more that 45lb anchors. Steve has already blown a big hole in the bigger is better clubhouse by pulling out an appearantly well set 65lb Forfjord w only 55hp and an 18" dia prop. I'll bet our Rocna fans would love to see Steve unable to pull out a 15lb Rocna. They probably won't be equally thrilled watching Steve's reduced scope test though.

I bought a pear shaped ring for towing or fwd thrust anchor testing at the marine store in Anacortes a few days ago. Plan to make a bridal that will utilize both of my stern cleats. But I have even less power than Steve w the same sized prop. But I have smaller anchors.
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Old 03-24-2016, 10:11 PM   #334
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Eric,

Just to clarify, Panope's engine is a 3jh3e of 40 hp.

Steve
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:59 PM   #335
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Steve I thought you had a small prop for less sailing drag.
My sailboat notions continue to lead me astray.
Sorry .. again.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:25 AM   #336
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Eric, I optimized for motoring performance (40 h.p., 18" diameter, 3 blade - Fixed). Boat formerly had a 15" diameter, 2 blade (driven by 15 hp.)

I do not feel that the sailing performance as been degraded an appreciable amount. Conversely, the motoring performance is phenomenally better than before. Boat drives into weather like a freight train. Remember the rather high numbers my "bollard pull test" produced (910 lbs. max)

I think many people who cruise on sailboats here in the Salish Sea/Inside Passage would have an overall better experience if they did something similar to what I did (get a big motor and prop).

Sailboat racers are another story.......

Steve
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:13 AM   #337
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Steve,
Sure would like to know why the Supreme had problems w the reversal. Especially since it was not a plugged RB hole. Perhaps a toe weight or angle of attack issue on it's side. I'll do a weight bias on my modified Supreme w/o the RB. One would think w/o the RB there would be considerably more tip weight.
Re your post I agree w all,
I think my BW gear has the same ratio fwd and reverse. Since there's so many BW's out there I'll probably get corrected if not. My gear is 2.57-1 .. Very similar to yours. What's your wot rpm running free and w 0 fwd speed pulling on an anchor? I think my bollard pull rpm is way down from running free.

At one time I was going to buy a sailboat and convert it to a trawler w a NT like house. Then we bought Willy and that turned out well. Now I've got a heater problem .... contaminated fuel .. my fault.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:02 AM   #338
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Eric,

I am currently embarked on a quest to answer the question about the Manson re-set issue. I will be using my grinder and welder. Stay tuned..........

Running free, Panope's engine makes3700 or 3800 rpm depending on the day. Tied to the dock or bottom (via anchor) the engine makes 3300 or 3400 depending on the day (we are talking about forward gear).
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:29 AM   #339
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"Grinder and welder"
Now that sounds interesting!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:47 AM   #340
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Eric,

I am currently embarked on a quest to answer the question about the Manson re-set issue. I will be using my grinder and welder. Stay tuned..........

Running free, Panope's engine makes3700 or 3800 rpm depending on the day. Tied to the dock or bottom (via anchor) the engine makes 3300 or 3400 depending on the day (we are talking about forward gear).
Steve

IMHO... You are a most unusual and super productive TF member!

In just 222 threads you supplied us with more strikingly clear info/videos regarding anchors and their setting/holding capabilities than any TF member with thousands of posts, or otherwise... including million dollar anchor companies that spent tens of thousands trying to do what you are accomplishing.

My Captain's hat is off to you!!

Thanks! - Art
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