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Old 02-14-2016, 02:29 PM   #201
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Steve,
The only place where I have seen the sailboat crash anchor technique was in Squirrel Cove. A guy came in at about a strong 3 knots and dumped his rode w a scary amount of chain noise and a big splash from his huge Forfjord anchor.

I hadn't even thought about your setting technique until last night. And I probably overstated on the above post. Sorry. Really hope you don't consider this a "shit fight" ..... I don't. But I do think anchors should/need to be set more slowly for maximum beneficial results. But the bottom line is keeping the boat off the rocks and beach. And until Panope turned into a trawler she was a sailboat ... motorsailer actually.
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Old 02-14-2016, 03:03 PM   #202
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Peter B wrote;
"That hog back version of your Supreme looks a bit strange. I can see what you're trying to achieve though. It might work, but it also may just encourage it to flop onto its side and stay there. It would also make it a bit incompatible with most bow roller set-ups. You would need to use just an open roller with no restraining loop or bolt like mine was originally. Trouble is they then tend to flip off the roller onto the capping sometimes..?
Time and real use will tell I guess. We will all be keen to hear"

Yes it even looks strange to me.
This anchor isn't a prototype for the market so I don't care if the thing works on other boats. The welded on rod is (like the roll bar) to keep the anchor right-side-up. Hopefully less draggy, lighter and most importantly permitting more penetration. It's most likely too big and as soon as it's bent I plan on reducing it's size .. especially fwd and vertically. The fwd slope of the hogback is to make it easy for a rode to pass over the anchor w/o snaging and tripping the anchor. Obviously the trip slot is not functional w the Hogback.
Peter .. "encourage it to flop onto its side and stay there." Well yes. That's the position the anchor is intended to be when it is ready to be set. Like the Spade and Rocna and others. The issue (among other things) is to have the fluke tip pressing down on the sea floor sideways like a knife (as Marin used to say). I should have weighed it before I cut off the RB. That's a good feature of the Claws .. the outboard flukes have a very high percentage of the anchor weight on the fluke tip just prior to setting. But now I don't think it could go up-side-down. In time I could make it smaller. Then it wouldn't look quite so odd.

First pic (a re-run) shows how easily it should move fwd w the RB missing. By the time the "hogback roll bar" starts under the seabed the fluke is rather far down and even though the drag from the hogback is higher up the drag itself is much lower. Hopefully the pitch up force will be less.

PS many bow pulpits have a slot that the hogback could come up through. The usual RB is transverse and won't come up into a longitudinal slot but the hogback could on many to some.
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:36 PM   #203
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Let me tell you guys my Danforth anchor story and why I would never use one in a reversing current situation:

I was anchored solidly with my Rocna at Jewell Island in Maine where the current runs up and down the anchorage at knot or less, reversing four times a day. After a couple of days, a guy south of me got ready to leave and pulled up anchor. What he had was a jumble of chain wrapped back and forth around his Danforth. It looked to me like the only thing that kept him in place for the last few days was the mass of chain.

So he re-launched his dinghy and with the blob of chain hanging just above the water, spent the next hour untangling that mess.

That is why I will only use a Danforth or Fortress in a straight pull situation.

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Old 02-14-2016, 05:44 PM   #204
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Maybe an anchor swivel would help that round and round and round problem of the chain.

http://www.marine-products.com/seach...eel-43520.html

I have one of these I salvaged but never have used it. The one I got was part of a crushed workmans boat in the dumpster.
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:56 PM   #205
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Ex TF member Djbanji was strongly opposed to swivels for the risk of failure and was not alone. There will be a range of views about them,best types, etc. This has the potential to derail an excellent objective thread, let`s not do that. There should be excellent archived swivel discussions.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:39 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Wow. A sailboat/powerboat sh!t fight woven into an anchor discussion. Unbelievable. .

The assumption that I picked up anchor methods from sailboat people is false. My "momentum based" setting technique is something I developed (quite recently) on my own - with my "beloved" engine running.

Eric, sometimes your imagination serves you well. This is not one of them.

Steve
"Anchor-set" loves ya... when there is first plenty of scope, then relatively strong engine back down.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:23 PM   #207
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Quote:
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Wow. A sailboat/powerboat sh!t fight woven into an anchor discussion. Unbelievable. .
Steve
Actually, I had to laugh at this, because Eric, you are right, the method is called the 'sailor's drop', or words to that effect, and I must say done properly it is very effective. I used it often back when we had yachts, and even now with Lotus I will sometimes use it as well.

It is a perfectly acceptable way to anchor, as one approaches slowly, not at 3 knots like the one time you saw it done, and it is particularly good when you are coming into an anchorage from upwind, so all the others at anchor being head to wind are facing you, and you know you're going to have to turn around as well. You choose the best space, and as you pass over about where you want your anchor to be, or preferably a bit ahead of that, by now in neutral and drifting, you lower the anchor slowly and steadily, at the same time giving a bit of helm one way or the other to swing the stern out & so the chain goes to the other side of the bow and keel, (dropping the sails a bit earlier if in a yacht), and the boat's gentle momentum carries it along so the chain flows out nicely behind and under the vessel, until about 3 times the depth has been let out, then cleated/winch stopped, and the anchor then sets itself and the bow actually comes round quite gently because the catenary damps the jerk down, and Bob'syerruncle, it's done. You then maybe give a wee feeler burst in reverse to check the set - I don't bother now, as it always is, let out a bit more depending on expected conditions, and go make a cuppa. Works for me...
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:32 PM   #208
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Actually, I had to laugh at this, because Eric, you are right, the method is called the 'sailor's drop', or words to that effect, and I must say done properly it is very effective. I used it often back when we had yachts, and even now with Lotus I will sometimes use it as well...
I was taught to sail downwind, throw the anchor over, let the sheets fly so the sails flapped, and wait for the boat to yank up head to wind as the anchor bit. Very dramatic, great fun.
Now, back to testing anchors, please.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:03 PM   #209
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Quote:
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I was taught to sail downwind, throw the anchor over, let the sheets fly so the sails flapped, and wait for the boat to yank up head to wind as the anchor bit. Very dramatic, great fun.
Now, back to testing anchors, please.
Yes...well it must have been you that Eric watched then Bruce. It is meant to be carried out with a bit more finesse, and at a slower pace than that, just so you don't..."wait for the boat to yank up head to wind as the anchor bit."
Bow anchoring hardware is too expensive to treat quite like that, but I'm sure you were exaggerating just a little.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:16 PM   #210
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Haven't needed to "back down" yet. We have ideal anchor-setting bottoms here (thick, heavy, mud), and local winds and currents readily bury anchors without the need of reverse engine. The boat jerks to a stop.

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Old 02-15-2016, 10:02 PM   #211
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Yes...well it must have been you that Eric watched then Bruce. It is meant to be carried out with a bit more finesse, and at a slower pace than that, just so you don't..."wait for the boat to yank up head to wind as the anchor bit."
Bow anchoring hardware is too expensive to treat quite like that, but I'm sure you were exaggerating just a little.
Well, just a little, but that was the essence of the procedure. It seemed to work, but it`s much more casual than our current deliberate practices. Last weekend in Yeomans Bay the boat performed many directional changes including 180 plus,while we stayed tethered on the Super Sarca. Looking forward to the test results.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:02 PM   #212
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Haven't needed to "back down" yet. We have ideal anchor-setting bottoms here (thick, heavy, mud), and local winds and currents readily bury anchors without the need of reverse engine. The boat jerks to a stop.

Mark

It has interested me a lot while reading several anchor threads that some (maybe even most??) people don't back down to help get an anchor firmly set. Guess I just always figured that nearly everyone backed down to complete the anchoring regime by making sure the set is firm and will surely last. I don't remember an anchoring time I did not back down. During my 1950's/60's/70's formative boating years back East I'm confident that at least most boaters backed down before shutting engine off... my dad and I sure did!

I'll keep up my ways of carefully lowering the anchor to the bottom, gently deploying rode for 5 to 1 or more scope, and then power-setting anchor into the bottom's surface strata; all that has worked very well for me for decades!

I believe in "Anchor Whispering"!
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:11 PM   #213
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Mark

... I don't remember an anchoring time I did not back down. During my 1950's/60's/70's formative boating years back East I'm confident that at least most boaters backed down before shutting engine off... my dad and I sure did!...
Do what works for you!
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:34 PM   #214
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I didn't set anchors (Danforth) in my 20's. Just lowered them to the bottom and added line for depth, scope and tide ... wild guesses I'l bet. When I heard about setting I thought it was stupid. If the anchor's any good it'll set itself surely. Always worked though.
However I would'nt dream of that now.
But now I don't set hard unless weather is on it's way.

Mark are you the only one down there that dosn't set? Seems out of chacter for you.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:35 PM   #215
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I'll keep up my ways of carefully lowering the anchor to the bottom, gently deploying rode for 5 to 1 or more scope, and then power-setting anchor into the bottom's surface strata; all that has worked very well for me for decades!
That's what we do as well (deploying rode while we back down so it doesn't end up in a pile) with my wife at the helm & me deploying the anchor and keeping my hand on the rode while she backs down

Only once our anchor didn't set, and I could feel it bouncing and barely catching on the bottom with my hand on the rode...if we had only drifted back on the anchor it could have just barely set and we'd never have known, until the wind picked up
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:21 PM   #216
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...

Mark are you the only one down there that dosn't set? Seems out of chacter for you.
I only speak about my own experience.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:05 PM   #217
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I was able to conduct 4 sets of the Sarca Anchor today.

Here is the first, the 3.5 to 1 scope with reverse test in "sandy mud"

Steve

Video #43
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:29 PM   #218
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......and the 2.5 to 1 scope test.....

Video #44
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:38 PM   #219
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Thanks Steve,very comforting so far. What is the displacement of SV Panope?
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:17 PM   #220
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That anchor sets well!
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