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Old 06-11-2009, 11:42 AM   #21
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

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troy994719 wrote:

Marian
V12's would be great, have you ever seen a detroit 16v142? talk about a set of twin engines!
What is your cruising speed and fuel burn now?*
With the two FL120s at about 1600 rpm (SW tachs are notoriously inaccurate) we get about 8 knots and burn about 5 gph.* We used to get about a quarter knot more before we had the props pitched down last year, but even though our speed as been reduced a bit, our EGT came down a bit so the engines aren't working quite as hard and our fuel burn came down a bit.* Probably a wash between the reduced fuel consumption and the reduced speed, but fuel consumption and cruise speed were not the reasons we had the props repitched.

I don't like 8 knots as a cruise speed. I would prefer 12 to 14.** I don't like a cruise speed of 110 mph in the Beaver either.* I'd prefer 200.* But you gets what you gets, right?

*
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:54 AM   #22
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

I was curious what a similar size trawler*would do with the bigger engines, i have twin lehman 80's and run about 6.5 knots at 1600 RPM. *
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:31 PM   #23
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

To my knowledge (and I could well be wrong) the largest engine the manufacturer put in the GB36 was the 210 Cummins (some installations may have used the 220 hp Cummins). Either one or two of them. The '91 GB36 we chartered before we got our own had a single 210 in it. At 2000 rpm, it cruised a smidge over 8 knots. I have no idea what the fuel burn was.

Of course the GB hull can be driven much faster than this, but its efficiency is kind of sucky. Fuel consumption on a high-power GB42 twin goes from about 6-7 gph at about 9 knots to some 23 gph at about 14 knots.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #24
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Troy: My boat is a Halvorsen 32 Gourmet Cruiser....same exact hull as the IG 32.

Here is a chart I made up after several fill ups at the pump. The gph is determined by a FloScan that has been adjusted to reflect actual gallons taken on. Speed was determined at slack tide, two directions and with GPS.* After achieving hull speed (roughly 7.3kts) all I do is push more water!
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:42 PM   #25
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Permission to brag captain?

Since the thread has morphed into a fuel economy discussion, my boat is full displacement, loa 39' with a w/l of 35.5', beam of 10 6' and displacement of 20000lb.

power is a single cummins 210 of which I typically use 40hp to cruise.

1500 rpm = 7.5 knots and 1.4 gph

1800 rpm = 9 knots and 1.8 gph

I can burn more fuel if necessary (rapids and such), but try not to.

Just cuz you have the power doesnt mean you have to use it.

Although when I run it up to WOT of 2500 it will make a mini-tsunami which with a sharp port turn, can make a nice present for the bayliner who just past me going 18knts in the narrow channel to steal the prime anchorage in the cove just ahead.

I suspect my motor will run a LONG time before needing a rebuild if you factor life of a diesel by total gallons used as opposed to enging hours.

your 'mileage' may vary
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:37 PM   #26
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Hey Marin,
**** My wife in the other room wanted to know what I was laughing about. Well I guess you wouldn't be thrilled w my 37hp Willard. Don't even need ear plugs w the engine hatches open. Did they ever make an inline 8-71 DD ?. If I could afford it I'd have a boat w large twin DDs. Thanks for the response on anchor rodes. I don't agree w much of your reasoning but I will admit that all chain rode makes a great reduction in swinging room** .. a very good asset in our part of the sea. Does anyone know* .. is 1/4" chain as strong as 5/8 nylon?. I sent my super anchor**(XYZ) out to my welder for mods. I just talked to a fisherman at the dock about his 96lb Forfjord on a 34' boat and he said his 65lb Forfjord draged in a 65mph wind so he got the 96lb model. Think he has 1/2" chain (or larger) w an on deck hyd winch. Those fishermen must be related to you Marin.
*** Shanafelt,
****Your boat is the same beam as my 30' Willard but almost 10' longer. I love long narrow boats and so does FF.
*** Walt,
*** You're going 1/2 knot faster than me at 1400 rpm.

***** Eric Henning

****
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:11 AM   #27
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Eric---

So far as I can determine Detroit diesels were available in in-line configurations of one, two, three, four, and six cylinders and Vee configurations of six, eight, twelve, sixteen, and twenty-four cylinders. No straight eights.

As I see it the primary advantages of all-chain rode are weight and resistance to damage, the primary advantages of nylon rode are light weight and shock absorbing. So which one a boater elects to use should depend on which one's advantages are best suited for the kinds of anchoring situations the boater is likely to encounter. Like most of the boaters we know in this area, I want a lot of weight in the water down as low as possible and I want the ability to anchor with a relatively short scope. And I don't want to mess around with a kellet. The chances of my needing to anchor under conditions that would take all the catenary out of the chain are remote to zero, so I'm not worried about chain's lack of shock absorbing.

I've met some sailboaters who have done a lot of cruising in the southwest Pacific. They said they often anchored in very exposed anchorages, used tandem anchors, and let out a ton of rode to deal with the winds and waves. For them, shock absorbing (and less weight) were major considerations. All chain would have been the wrong choice.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:27 AM   #28
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

"How much more room would I need to replace the chain with a nylon rode requireing a 7:1 ratio?confuse"

Depends if you are willing to spend the bucks for the newer style line that is very compact when dumped down a hole.

Our solution is to coil the nylon rode on deck in around , which is flipped into a figure 8 .

It sits on the deck with no hassles and the anchor is ready for INSTANT deployment ,

no hoping the chain pile didn't tumble or the 3 plait didn't hockle below in the locker.

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Old 06-12-2009, 05:30 PM   #29
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

If you're trying to keep the anchor shank down just put a 100# lead ball on the end of the anchor shank. 1st the anchor would stay down, 2nd the rode would weigh less than all chain and 3rd the all nylon rode would have maximum shock absorbing ability. Yea** .. thats what I thought on the DDs. Marin* .. you don't need to worry about shock absorbing ability w your all chain rode. the chain, under load will lay in a 1/4 circle and have huge shock absorbing capicity unless it's pulled straight out and an all chain rode straight out means you've got much worse troubles than lack of shock absorbsion.

FF,
**** There is a boat here in Thorne Bay that does that. He has two posts about 1" in dia and 12 - 14" high. He lays the rode down in a figure eight around the posts port and starboard.**Don't know what*happens*when the bow goes weightless on the nasty?

**** Eric Henning
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:25 AM   #30
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

This is a timely discussion for me as I just spent a week with a student who insisted that when he switched to all chain rode his anchor failed to hold any better and actually held worse, and now he uses two anchors. Needless to say, we had quite the discussion about what may be wrong with his setup. Never the less, all the discussion so far about the disadvantages of all chain rode has failed to mention one critical fact. A properly designed and deployed snubber will eliminate the problem of a lack of shock absorbing stretch provided with line. I use one every time I anchor, even in zero winds, since it also prevents the chain from transmitting the noise of every little rock it drags across all night. Using all chain has several advantages for us. First, most anchorages here are pretty deep, and we routinely anchor in 50 to 60 feet, and often times can't find water that shallow. All chain increases our holding power, allowing shorter scope than using a combination of chain and line. Sure, we could send down a sentinal, or kellet, (a weight attached mid way down the line) to increase holding power, but that's just too much work unless we are expecting really bad conditions. Our chain gipsey is designed for all chain, and most combination chain / rode ones I have seen don't do too well with line, and the line tends to override on its self. We carry just over 300 feet of 3/8 chain, with an 80 lb Delta fast set anchor. In hundreds of anchorages, only once has it failed to set on the first try, and believe me I back down on it HARD each time I set it, since I don't enjoy getting up in the middle of the night to check a draging anchor. I often times put it all out even in shallow water, since I don't see any disadvantage to doing so, except in a crowded anchorage (almost never a problem here) It takes no more effort to get it all back than it does to get only half of it back. If my button pushing finger gets tired, I simply switch fingers. Our set-up has held us secure in sustained 65 knot winds (for almost two days) and didn't drag an inch. With a lighter rode, no doubt I would have felt even less secure. So, for us, an all chain rode with a snubber will always be the answer. If I could hoist an even bigger anchor, I'd have that too, but at the time I bought it, the 80lb Fast set was the biggest readily available. Actually, I'm thinking of adding even more chain, but don't know how to splice it to insure equal tensle strength of the original chain the splice and the new chain, and still go around my gipsy. Anyone know the answer?

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Old 08-03-2009, 11:40 AM   #31
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

We have used C-Link chain connectors for decades and never had one fail, even in 12 hurricanes. As with all things anchoring, buy quality. Chuck
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:18 PM   #32
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

I usually put a length of chain equal to the length of my boat.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:04 AM   #33
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Quote:
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We have used C-Link chain connectors for decades and never had one fail, even in 12 hurricanes. As with all things anchoring, buy quality. Chuck
Hi Chuck, I too used one of the two piece connecting links to add more chain on a previous boat, but nowhere was I able to find a SWL rating for them, and I always worried that the link was the weakest part of the assembly. Once while working at a shipyard, I took a rigging class, and the instructor told us never to use any connecting devices (hooks, shackels, etc) that were not rated at least as strong as what they connected to. Then again finding the rating for the chain I currently have hasn't been easy either, so perhaps I should stop worrying and just add another 100 ft. That will open up a lot more options here in the land of deep water anchorages.

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Old 08-04-2009, 10:49 AM   #34
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

AC, At one point we were able to find the specs on the C-Link and if of good quality was rated 90% of the chain. Your only other option would be to have a link welded to connect the chain but you would need to find someone experienced at this and the galvanizing would be a problem. We survived 15 named storms on the anchor chain without issues so you can take from that what you might. Chuck
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:09 AM   #35
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

On one of these threads I promised to try anchoring w no chain at all. On my little trip I reported on in Voyagers ect I tried it. I first tried my Forfjord. I was in a very small cove probably no more than 3 - 400' across at high tide w a 0 tide predicted for the night** ..* along w "light winds". It was 48' deep near the center and I had a new piece of 3 strand nylon 100' long. I deployed the Forjord, waited for the line to sink and backed down. As expected I could feel the anchor bouncing along the bottom. I draged it untill I ran out of room** ..* got no signifigant pull on the line. I was going to try my XYZ anchor next but the last time I did it just bounced along so I deployed my Danforth. The Danforth hooked up almost immediately. I'd have bet a big chunck of change it would'nt work** .. but it did. How could it set on such short scope? The only logical answer is that I snagged something. Well it was getting dark and we were hooked up so we spent the night. In the morning we pulled up to vertical* over the anchor and it pulled out normally** ..* by hand w some effort applied. I expected to anchor without chain but not at 2-1 scope. The only other thing I can add is that the anchor was a genuine Danforth w forged shank. Thats two experiences where the Danforth came through and others failed. The Danforth was such old technology I hadn't planned to even use them (I have three). I think I'll put the 100' of three strand on the end of my 350' of Brait and use the Danforths untill they are gone** .. or whatever.

Eric Henning
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:10 AM   #36
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

It was 48' deep near the center and I had a new piece of 3 strand nylon 100' long.

3-1 scope is a real test for most anchors, rode rider might have helped .
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:34 AM   #37
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Anchoring without any chain is a bad idea for many reasons. Deducing that because an anchor set once or even a couple of times makes this OK, is setting yourself up for disaster. Once a hard blow comes up unexpectedly, especially in the middle of the night, the potential to loose the boat is real and I could not understand any skipper that would even consider skimping on anchor or rode. This is a primary piece of safety equipment and makes as much sense as using plastic gate valves as thru-hulls. What purpose would this really serve?
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:00 AM   #38
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

"Anchoring without any chain is a bad idea for many reasons."

Danforth advised to use line from WWII to the mid 70's.

Of course by the mid 70's folks were not using a pound of anchor per foot of boat LOA.

Which might have been the cause for the change.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:02 AM   #39
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Anchor-rope -with chain

Here in Southern Cal, I seldom anchor so you can imagine my surprise when I saw the ugliest rust stain on my beautiful blue hull, below the anchor locker drain. I pulled out 238' of Chinese 5/16" non-galvanized chain and could not believe the rust. That chain would be almost useless if I had ever needed it.* When I do get a chance to anchor, it's always in 20-30' feet of water with no coral or rocky bottom. I replaced the Chinese chain with 20' of 5/16 BBB spliced to 200' of 9/16 Mega Plait and a 44# Claw. (I can't believe how nice and soft this Mega Plait is and how well it coils in the locker.)

I've tried the Rust Remover from West Marine but it won't budge the rust stain. My hull is LP paint. Other than compounding or sanding and repainting does anyone have any suggestions for the stain removal?



-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 15th of October 2009 09:06:20 AM
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:44 AM   #40
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RE: Anchor-rope -with chain

Seahorse, Try a product called Rustaid, but don't leave it on the paint too long. We have used it on Awlgrip with no ill affects. Do an extremely thorough rinse but the rust should disappear immediately. Don't scrub, just spray or wipe it on wait a moment, you should see the rust stain fade, and rinse.
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