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Old 02-02-2015, 05:41 PM   #41
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As I said reality is that if you dumpted your chain and used a 250lb anchor your rode weight would be (for all PP) the same so REALITY is that pulling up your rode would be the same. .
No it wouldn't. If I'm anchored in 30 feet of water with 200 feet of chain out, if I retrieve the anchor I am never pulling up the entire weight of 200 feet of chain at one time. I'm pulling up maybe 40 feet of chain with the rest still lying on the bottom. So no big deal. As I do this, the boat keeps moving forward until it's directly over the anchor. Then I have to pull up not only the 30 feet of chain between the boat and the bottom but the ENTIRE 250 pounds of anchor along with it.

That, combined with the fact that a 250-pound anchor won't even come close to fitting on our boat, sort of negates the practicality of your theory.

There's that pesky reality thing again, Eric.
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Old 02-02-2015, 05:48 PM   #42
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Boats that may be perfect, but difficult to use, no matter the reason including inexperience, don't get used.

Anchoring and getting good at it takes practice....many agree it't practice over equipment that really matters.

Anything and everything that makes anchoring easier....can only be "better" in the long run.

Better is a dirty word in boating because it rarely applies...but if I ever use it in TF....that last sentence may be the best use of it.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:00 PM   #43
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Here is one to ponder. What do you do when the heavy chain and anchor is out and you are in 60 ft of water and the windless craps out? I am so old and been doing this anchor stuff so long that has actually happened to me. I sure would have voted for an aluminum spade 10ft of chain and all rode at that point.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:11 PM   #44
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Here is one to ponder. What do you do when the heavy chain and anchor is out and you are in 60 ft of water and the windless craps out? I am so old and been doing this anchor stuff so long that has actually happened to me. I sure would have voted for an aluminum spade 10ft of chain and all rode at that point.

We bought this.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5486_200455486
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:13 PM   #45
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Here is one to ponder. What do you do when the heavy chain and anchor is out and you are in 60 ft of water and the windless craps out? I am so old and been doing this anchor stuff so long that has actually happened to me. I sure would have voted for an aluminum spade 10ft of chain and all rode at that point.
I use the manual crank side and this is where the horizontal shines unless you use a power drill with attachment for the vertical kind.
Shame on me if that doesn't work as mine is so simple it would have to fall apart first.

if that doesn't work..the chain cones up with about the same ease as nylon...maybe a little heavier...the anchor is the anchor no matter what rode.

many days I deal with wet nylon tow lines...believe me...hauling in nylon or chain by hand will wind you if not in shape...but I don't see the average chain rode as much worse.

when the boat gets big enough and you have to pull nylon, chain or the boat....good luck to anyone.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:24 PM   #46
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No it wouldn't. If I'm anchored in 30 feet of water with 200 feet of chain out, if I retrieve the anchor I am never pulling up the entire weight of 200 feet of chain at one time. I'm pulling up maybe 40 feet of chain with the rest still lying on the bottom. So no big deal. As I do this, the boat keeps moving forward until it's directly over the anchor. Then I have to pull up not only the 30 feet of chain between the boat and the bottom but the ENTIRE 250 pounds of anchor along with it.

That, combined with the fact that a 250-pound anchor won't even come close to fitting on our boat, sort of negates the practicality of your theory.

There's that pesky reality thing again, Eric.
Got a point there Marin. But if my example had'nt been so extreme you would'nt. But the all chain rode is not defendable except for convenience.

N4712 looks like more unessessary weight.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:24 PM   #47
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Here is one to ponder. What do you do when the heavy chain and anchor is out and you are in 60 ft of water and the windless craps out?.
The original windlass to the boat did this to us (lunched a couple of gears) and I had to pull the chain and the 44 pound anchor by hand. We were in 30 feet of water at the time. I took my time and had no real problem although I can think of things I'd rather do.

We replaced this windlass with a Lofrans Tigres which has a manual mode. While very slow, it's easy on the body to use.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:28 PM   #48
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Note we can also manually lift with the windlass. Just thought a winch would make it that much easier.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:30 PM   #49
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N4712 looks like more unessessary weight.

Unnecessary to you, perfectly justifiable to me.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:40 PM   #50
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But the all chain rode is not defendable except for convenience.
.
Of course it is. Your nylon rode doesn't do squat to lower the angle of pull on the anchor when the wind kicks up. In fact, unless you use a heavy kellet, it tries to lever the anchor up out of the bottom when all the slack is out of it.

An all-chain rode will do this, too, of course, if the wind kicks up enough to take all the catenary out of the line. But the wind has to be a hell of a lot stronger before this happens to an all-chain rode that it has to be to make your nylon rode a straight line from your bow roller to the anchor shank and start pulling up on the anchor.

And the way we use our snubber and the long loop of chain we let down between the bow pulpit and the chain grab, the wind will have to blow even a bit harder to make the chain a straight line from the pulpit to the anchor.

To my way of thinking, the only advantage a nylon rode has over all-chain is less weight in the bow and it makes it easier to pull the anchor by hand if you have to. And with a boat like the one we have here in the PNW, weight in the bow is of no consequence, at least as far as two or three hundred feet of chain is concerned.

It would be on your boat, but it's not on ours.

So I don't view all-chain as a less-than-ideal rode at all. I view a combination rode as less-than-ideal, at least on boats like the one we have here and in the waters we boat in.

But you are certainly correct in one regard. An all-chain rode is certainly more convenient than a combination or all-nylon rode. Nylon is a pain in the butt to keep clean, it doesn't want to go where you want it to go when you haul it in, it tangles on itself at the drop of a hat, and more often than not it gets to stinking in the chain locker. (Ever wonder why it's called a "chain locker" and not a "nylon locker." Even the old-timers knew better than to mess around with a toy anchor rode. Kidding.)

So contrary to you, I don't view a lighweight rode as being at all beneficial other than it being light. And you don't have to use a snubber with it. But snubbers are so easy to rig I don't see much advantage to not having to use one.

As psneeld says, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. There are certainly plenty of boats and anchoring situations where a combination rode is the better bet than all-chain. But in my opinion, our boat in our waters isn't one of them.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:41 PM   #51
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Slightly off topic, I was meeting a Nordhaven in the Hudson River last summer. I noticed a 'line' hanging down from his pulpit into the water.

I called him to say HI, and to also comment about 'the line hanging off his pulpit'.

He informed me it was a 'loop' of line with a snap shackle in it. He used it for anchoring in shallow areas, to reduce the amount of scope necessary. He mentioned he reduced the amount of scope by taking OUT the height from the pulpit to the waterline, thus making 'short scope anchoring' in tight quarters, but in reality actually having the proper amount of scope out! Pretty impressive. Now that I am looking for it, I see it on quite a few vessels. It consists of an eyebolt at the waterline, and a loop of line and a snap shackle through the eyebolt, up to the pulpit. Anyone else use this?

The math ( using 6' depth) works out like this: The height of the pulpit, 7', plus the 6' equals 13' x 6= 78' for 6:1; However taking out the height of the pupit, 6' depth, 6x6= 36' of scope needed for 6:1.
with different depths 37x6=223' 6:1
but from the waterline, 30x6=180' 6:1
or deeper, 57x6=342' 6:1
but from the waterline 50x6300' 6:1

So in the same water depth, the scope can be kept to the correct angle to ensure the anchor digging in correctly. I wouldn't use this in a blow, but for ordinary anchoring it sounds pretty neat.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:45 PM   #52
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Slightly off topic, I was meeting a Nordhaven in the Hudson River last summer. I noticed a 'line' hanging down from his pulpit into the water.

I called him to say HI, and to also comment about 'the line hanging off his pulpit'.

He informed me it was a 'loop' of line with a snap shackle in it. He used it for anchoring in shallow areas, to reduce the amount of scope necessary. He mentioned he reduced the amount of scope by taking OUT the height from the pulpit to the waterline, thus making 'short scope anchoring' in tight quarters, but in reality actually having the proper amount of scope out! Pretty impressive. Now that I am looking for it, I see it on quite a few vessels. It consists of an eyebolt at the waterline, and a loop of line and a snap shackle through the eyebolt, up to the pulpit. Anyone else use this?

The math ( using 6' depth) works out like this: The height of the pulpit, 7', plus the 6' equals 13' x 6= 78' for 6:1; However taking out the height of the pupit, 6' depth, 6x6= 36' of scope needed for 6:1.
with different depths 37x6=223' 6:1
but from the waterline, 30x6=180' 6:1
or deeper, 57x6=342' 6:1
but from the waterline 50x6300' 6:1

So in the same water depth, the scope can be kept to the correct angle to ensure the anchor digging in correctly. I wouldn't use this in a blow, but for ordinary anchoring it sounds pretty neat.

Yep that's how our setup works. Are now is like 10ft off the water so it definitely helps with not having to out out as much scope even though I leave a big bight.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:54 PM   #53
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I'm sure that Warn winch would work only you have to rerig every 15 feet and tie off between rigging changes. The anchor gets the heaviest after it breaks the surface.
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:24 PM   #54
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I'm sure that Warn winch would work only you have to rerig every 15 feet and tie off between rigging changes. The anchor gets the heaviest after it breaks the surface.

Well if we have to re rig every 15ft so be it. Better then manually doing it. We also have a 1300lb davit if we ever needed to break it out with the windlass broken.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:24 PM   #55
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[QUOTE=RCook;303906]
Suspend the chain so that you can sit with the chain end hanging in front of you roughly at the height of your shoulders. Flatten out each of the three strands after you tie on a constrictor and unlay them - don't keep them twisted and round. Cut their ends into a bit of a taper, and then tape around each end with masking tape making somewhat of a point.


RC,

Getting back to splicing, I tape the strands then make the tapered cut.

Rob
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:20 AM   #56
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What timely thread! I am setting up for the inside passage. I have a Maxwell/Nilsson windlass. Currently I have 120 of 5/16 BBB chain and a 40lb Danforth anchor. I am replacing it with a 73lb Rocna anchor, 400' of 5/16 BBB chain with at least 200' of rope rode at the tail end. Good info here. Thanks
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:15 PM   #57
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Four hundred feet of chain might be a bit overkill, but three hundred for sure.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:29 PM   #58
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A long rode has a lot of merrit in Alaska.

Side note:
It's interesting Rocna is now building anchors W/O roll bars and Spade just introduced 2 anchors in their line WITH roll bars. It seems I'm not the only one in doubt.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:39 PM   #59
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A long rode has a lot of merrit in Alaska.

Side note:
It's interesting Rocna is now building anchors W/O roll bars and Spade just introduced 2 anchors in their line WITH roll bars. It seems I'm not the only one in doubt.
I bought one with a roll bar? Are there concerns?
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:39 PM   #60
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Four hundred feet of chain might be a bit overkill, but three hundred for sure.
I have anchored in 300ft in Alaska and typical rode for Alaska is 600'
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