READY2GO,
I,m really supprised at the results so far. I'd a never thunk.
No wonder there's so many guys try'in to beat me up when I rave about how unnecessary (or even not benefical) all chain is. Haha Marin has many followers.
Well for the survey I use 3' of 3/8" chain next to the anchor and 6 to 12' of 5/16" chain attached to that. Then 5/8" nylon Brait. Chain length varies on anchor used or anticipated weather. Never used more than a boat length of chain.
Chapman recomends "6 to 8 or more feet; longer is desirable between the line and the anchor." In an older book Chapman recomends a "short length of chain (a fathom, more or less) of chain. Interestingly the text goes on to say that "one authority claims that the lightweight anchor bites best without chain" .... even I doubt that but it's an interesting tidbit. How we went from a few feet of chain to hundreds of feet of chain is a mystery to me. But I see here many embrace just that. Is it a case of some's good mores better philosophy? The guys on my dock say so? That's what fishermen do? That's what the USCG does? I have another theory.
Perhaps this poll is biased because the majority of the responders use windlasses? The guys with captive reel winches generally use all nylon with a chain leader, or sometimes wire rope. I spent some time on a friend's 100 footer with the stockless anchor snugged up in the hawser hole, and he still used nylon on a reel. A great number of commercial fishermen use the reel with nylon and those guys use their boats a lot more than the average pleasure cruiser.
So Mr. READY2GO, perhaps the poll should be expanded to be more accurate.
Before I had a real windlass, I had nylon 3-strand rode with about a boat length of chain (30 ft). Lots of work and a mess on the deck every time.
After I installed the windlass, I went with 120 ft of 5/16 G4 chain with 240 ft of 8 ply 5/8 nylon Brait spliced. Since much of my fishing anchoring is in 20-35 ft of water, I'm often hanging on all chain.
My other theory (mentioned in post #21) goes something like this .. that I posted on the "Recreational Trawler" thread.
"All chain rode has a nice ring to it. It reeks of heavy duty, smart, salty and kinda top of the line mentality. Heavy is the essence of "trawler" and all chain is the heaviest and most expensive option. Also it's obviously the most widely used anchor rode on real trawlers ... I should probably say "fishing" trawlers. And it kinda makes a lighter rode look like a half baked anchoring effort. The better choice (combination) is rejected as it dosn't measure up re the trawler image. The image is obviously very important to a lot of trawler skippers. When you go to the dance you dress accordingly."
The whole premise is based on weight. Heavy duty. No Namby Pamby light stuff for me dude .. give me the stuff from the men's section. My dad was a member of that club. Had a Lobster yacht built in Maine and was on the phone w the builder a lot (probably drove them nuts) requesting this or that to be more Skookum. The boat was 36 feet powered by a (you guessed it) 6-61 DD. By the time the boat hit the water her top speed was 9 knots.
Maybe I learned from dad that there was a time for skookum and a time to say too much.
And my philosophy of light is better came partly from the fact that most of my time w our 30' Willard has been spent w/o a winch so all of my weighing anchor has been by hand. So I started using this anchor of 13lbs (2nd pic). Had big problems w that and begun experimenting w anchors. Still doing it but have a small capstan now. So I was sorta forced into the light gear channel. After a time I realized I had never dragged any anchor and was doubting the all chain rode songs I kept hearing on TF.
People usually go for the trawler because they are oriented to and prefer heavy duty stuff .. skookum like dad said. So it shouldn't be a surprise to me to find out most guys on a trawler forum prefer chain.
2nd pic is of Dad's boat. Posted some time ago also but you can see the chain, heavy winch and oversized Forfjord anchor.
Moonstruck has 30' of 5/16" G4 chain and 300' 5/8" 8 brait nylon rope. Quiet, smooth, and easy to set up. The natural stretch of the nylon is a good shock absorber.
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Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown) http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Perhaps this poll is biased because the majority of the responders use windlasses? The guys with captive reel winches generally use all nylon with a chain leader, or sometimes wire rope. I spent some time on a friend's 100 footer with the stockless anchor snugged up in the hawser hole, and he still used nylon on a reel. A great number of commercial fishermen use the reel with nylon and those guys use their boats a lot more than the average pleasure cruiser.
So Mr. READY2GO, perhaps the poll should be expanded to be more accurate.
Those commercial fishing guys rarely anchor, for one thing, and rarely for more than a day, if that.
All chain is chosen for several reasons, all of them practical. To name but a few:
1) the weight makes for a heavier catenary and thus a more gentle motion at anchor under normal conditions. 2) the chain is not subject to chafing on the sea bottom and the various hard object thereon; between that and stress a rope rode will be more short lived 3) the chain can bury and settle into mud and sand deeply; it is not uncommon for the boat to lie to the chain, not the anchor (ever wonder about one reason why an anchor may come up backwards sometimes?), again making for a gentler motion, and less horsing.
Heck, I see this phenomena on the short lengths of chain we use on the Whaler.
If you are a weekend warrior or rarely anchor, I don't see the necessity of an all chain rode. But for full time cruising across a variety of geographies, involving multi-day anchorages and the inevitable sporty conditions I wouldn't be without it .
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George
"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
Like the vast majority of boats we see in this area of the of the type we have we have an all-chain rode for the main anchor.
The FX-23 we carry on the swimstep for a stern anchor-- but which is sized to be the main anchor for the boat should we want to use it for that-- is equipped with a combination rode that we keep in a covered plastic crate on the aft deck so we can easily carry if forward if we want to.
I would have guessed that "more than a boat length but less than 100'" would take in most of us. I was very wrong.
But now that because voting posts your name by your vote everyone will know you're in a small minority unless you vote all chain. But I think there's enough up there to show what people are using. Next week I'm going to the hospital for a big fat hernia operation .. two actually. That will make 4 total. Perhaps I should join the chain gang and leave the anchor on the bow. Sometimes it pays to follow the crowd. Not my style though. Don't want to shell out $1500 bucks either not to mention a winch install.
@ bow all chain, @ stern chain + rope. 50+ meters each, 8 / 24 mm diam.
Was sufficient so far for our 40' / 18 tons.
Yes, we are normally anchoring only at fair weather. But was also tight once at surprising 40 knots wind over night ...
best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden
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best regards / med venlig hilsen
Wadden
45' of 5/16" G4 with 600' of 5/8" nylon (after I installed my windlass). Average anchoring depths where I travel are 60-120', sometimes as much as 150-200' and the tide range can be as much as 30' between high and low (average range of 15-20'). Pre-windlass I pulled by hand and had 20' of 5/16" G4 and 400' of 5/8 nylon (70 lbs). A Rocna 15K is my primary and storm anchor, biggest and best first :-) My secondary is a 10K Rocna and the 400' line with 20' chain I used before I got the windlass. It's enough bow weight that my shower drain needs help, since it's in the stern side of the shower and the bow weight moves the water away from the drain. Most of the really deep anchorages have smaller tide ranges, most of the shallow ones have the most.
Good discussion -- I have 150' of 5/16" chain, nothing else. Talked a lot of folks, who in turn, told me I need to add another 200' of rode in 7/8" range for a 25T boat. What do ya think guy's. Thanks, Tonto.
Tonto--- The answer I think lies with the conditions under which you anchor. How deep, what the bottom typically consists of, what the anchorages tend to be like in terms of exposure to wind and waves, etc.
As a single data point for you we have a 30,000 pound, twin-engine cabin cruiser. Our rode is 200' of chain. Were we to buy new chain for the boat we would go with 250' or even 300' because our anchorages can be pretty deep, particularly farther north. But so far 200' has proven to be adequate.
Tonto--- The answer I think lies with the conditions under which you anchor. How deep, what the bottom typically consists of, what the anchorages tend to be like in terms of exposure to wind and waves, etc.
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That's the key IMO. In calm, smooth ... condition even our 180' chain have been sufficient so far for us (40' / 40'000 pound). But: we don't have to consider tides / currents in the Baltics when we're anchoring over night. I guess we would need much more rode if we would anchor in regions with significant tides or currents ...
best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden
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best regards / med venlig hilsen
Wadden
105' of 3/8 BBB and 100' of 5/8" 3 strand nylon. I added the nylon after finding the unmarked chain was not tied to anything! It worked for the PO's for 30 years, but I know I'm not that lucky.
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Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
The thing with anchoring is there are so many variables that it is difficult to make hard and fast rules. Example: There is not much of an angle difference between 6:1 and 10:1 but there is a difference in how the boat will ride in a blow depending on how long that 6:1 rode is. If you are anchoring in 7' of water which we do many times the weight of 72' of chain (7' of water + 5' bow roller height = 12' X 6) will allow the chain to straighten out with less wind and wave action than 10:1 which is 120'. Change the water depth to 20' and it is a whole different ballgame because now 6:1 scope is 150' of chain.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
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