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Old 10-27-2011, 01:08 PM   #21
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Anchor design and performance

Eric--- I know you can go look at one of these in person, but after reading your previous post I went out in the garage and took these shots of this genuine 33# Bruce which used to be on our boat but is now doing a much more reliable job of propping a door open. I draw no conclusions from these photos at all as I have long since written off the Bruce as a viable anchor design, at least for our boat. But perhaps you can draw some conclusions about the intent behind the anchor's design from these photos. I realize now that I misread your post and*none of my shots duplicate the view you described as looking straight down the shank*on the anchor.* But perhaps there are some views that will reinforce your feeling about how the anchor is supposed to work.

The last photo includes something far more interesting and dependable than the anchor.** It-- or rather the capstan winch on the front of it-- made possible my move from*Hawaii to here in 1979, getting into floatplane flying, meeting my wife, and getting the two boats we have now, and even buying*a Bruce anchor and then getting rid of it :-) It's the Series III-88 Land Rover I bought new in 1973 and still drive today.* Interestingly enough, 1973 is also the year our Grand Banks was made.

*

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 27th of October 2011 05:45:46 PM
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:30 PM   #22
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RE: Anchor design and performance

If I remember correctly...when you pull on a Bruce...the tip starts to catch then the anchor pivots up in the rear and the flukes dig in and form a substantial angle that creates resistance...whereas a danforth just slides and as the flukes bury... it burys at a flat shank angle but the flukes remain pointed down...no tipping like the Bruce.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:41 PM   #23
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Marin I'm sure glad you made that post and took those pics. Your Bruce has much thicker outbd flukes and the center fluke is just a tad longer. In your 4th pic the twist in the outbd fluke is very obvious and my no name claw is the same. If you look from the 3rd pic to the 2nd pic you can see how the twist helps the outbd flukes resist fwd movement. Look at the 2nd pic ... It's close to the angle of sight I tried to describe and you can see the flukes are wider than they are in pic #3. They are closer to right angles to the direction of travel thus increasing resistance and holding power. The twist also, I think, tends to compress the bottom material between the two outbd flukes. The twist seems to do all kinds of good things and the Manson Ray dos'nt apparently have the twist. I wonder what they were thinking *...or if they were thinking. Another observation * ...if you turn the Bruce up side down it looks like the wings of a goose on final approach. The birds know about washout. * * I do'nt know much about Land Rovers. Up here if one wants to go off road or on old logging roads they just ride "quads". My ex-wife's brother has 2 Land Rovers like yours in Juneau. * *I think they are diesels. He found some super rover mechanic in West Vancouver to work over his heads a few years ago. Do you realize how unusual that is to have a car that old and having bought it new?? My 455 Buick is a 73. Only had it about 12 years. The more I look at your pics and my no name claw the more I think the no name is a fairly good copy * ...except the outbd flukes are thinner/sharper.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:56 PM   #24
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Scott,

Unless the Danforth breaks out it either stops or digs deeper because the flukes ARE at an angle *...a rather shallow angle that does more digging than bull dozing. The Danforths get some of it's holding power from the weight of bottom material on top of it * ...holding it down. Personally I do'nt think the Danforth penetrates that deep but it has a lot of fluke area. And the Danforth's holding power is considerably greater. Is your boat an Albin?
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:19 AM   #25
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Yes...my boat is an 1988 40' Albin.

Danforths definitely will penetrate deep given a soft bottom or enough pull...there's nothing to keep them from burrowing as the deepsets are even designed with a very narrow shank.

*

That I think is the greatest issue/danger with a danforth...if dug and holding deep enough in a good blow...and you experience a wind/tide shift that can break out a well holding danforth/fortress...the holding power is so great that you will bend the shank (not very hard to do) as it breaks out and now that it is bent (even a little) it will not reset...I personally have experience this and why I would never use a danforth style as a overnight sound sleep type anchor unless I was sure about the anchorage current and weather predictions.
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:50 AM   #26
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Scott,

Indeed: *Sideways pull on a run-of-the-mill steel Danforth is an anchor killer. That and rocky bottoms. The stocks are easily bent too. But when it comes to holding power they are king. Ther'es a whole sack full of anchors that come close and they offer many benefits the Dan's lack. But re the shank if you look at all the other anchors they really are'nt much different and as we found out re the Rocna the material the shank's made out of is very important. The Fortress shank is made of a high strength alloy (possibly 7075) and I'd feel quite comfortable w it but the majority of Danforths these days are obviously made from steel plate. The Forfjord has the most bullet proof shank I know of being made of large square stock. My XYZ having such a short shank is also very strong assuming it's made out of very strong stuff, and I believe it is. But the Danforth was the hot dog for many years and still has excellent performance in most conditions, even by today's standards. And the Fortress (an optimized Danforth design) is still king of the holding power hill. There we have'nt been able to beat the 1938 design. I think FF said that's when the Danforth came out. Re your comment I believe the Dan's have 2 things that do impede penetration. The upper pad and the stock. It could be argued that both are neutral as the lower pad would cancel the upper and the drag of the stock is neutral. What do you think Scott?
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:20 AM   #27
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Quote:
psneeld wrote:
Danforths definitely will penetrate deep given a soft bottom or enough pull...there's nothing to keep them from burrowing as the deepsets are even designed with a very narrow shank.

*

That I think is the greatest issue/danger with a danforth...if dug and holding deep enough in a good blow...and you experience a wind/tide shift that can break out a well holding danforth/fortress...the holding power is so great that you will bend the shank (not very hard to do) as it breaks out and now that it is bent (even a little) it will not reset...I personally have experience this and why I would never use a danforth style as a overnight sound sleep type anchor unless I was sure about the anchorage current and weather predictions.
*Even though I am presently using a Delta, I am a tried and true Danforth fan. That is all I used on my previous boat and anchored hundreds of times and like it much better. So much better that I am going to make my main a Danforth.

We have dove many times on the Danforth and it*usually burries itself deep and out of sight. Besides being hard to set in a weedy bottom, the only issue I have found is that on a 180 degree*current or wind shift that happens "slowly", the chain can and likely will foul the anchor as it passes by. If you are not aware of this you can be introuble. When using a Danforth if we had suspected that we turned overnight we would lift and reset before the morning winds kicked up.

I have never bent a shank but have seen it happen to others in my marina. But that was*usually from them trying*to force the anchor out when they pulled it up to leave. We always run the rode straight and wait a minute if necessary for it to ease itself out.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:01 AM   #28
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Quote:
jleonard wrote:psneeld wrote:
Danforths definitely will penetrate deep given a soft bottom or enough pull...there's nothing to keep them from burrowing as the deepsets are even designed with a very narrow shank.

*

That I think is the greatest issue/danger with a danforth...if dug and holding deep enough in a good blow...and you experience a wind/tide shift that can break out a well holding danforth/fortress...the holding power is so great that you will bend the shank (not very hard to do) as it breaks out and now that it is bent (even a little) it will not reset...I personally have experience this and why I would never use a danforth style as a overnight sound sleep type anchor unless I was sure about the anchorage current and weather predictions.
*Even though I am presently using a Delta, I am a tried and true Danforth fan. That is all I used on my previous boat and anchored hundreds of times and like it much better. So much better that I am going to make my main a Danforth.

We have dove many times on the Danforth and it*usually burries itself deep and out of sight. Besides being hard to set in a weedy bottom, the only issue I have found is that on a 180 degree*current or wind shift that happens "slowly", the chain can and likely will foul the anchor as it passes by. If you are not aware of this you can be introuble. When using a Danforth if we had suspected that we turned overnight we would lift and reset before the morning winds kicked up.

I have never bent a shank but have seen it happen to others in my marina. But that was*usually from them trying*to force the anchor out when they pulled it up to leave. We always run the rode straight and wait a minute if necessary for it to ease itself out.

*Danforths can foul in oyster areas or areas with similar sized rocks...anything that can jamb the flukes at the same angle as the shank...have had it happen to me many times...while they are good at what they are supposed to do...you have to bet your boat of a clean hold and like I said..a significant swing quickly followed by significant pull...I have bent up to 22 pounder shanks by hand enough to prevent them from working properly...I'd be worried what a 20,000 pound vessel could do in a second or two...
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:37 PM   #29
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Anchor design and performance

Here is a web page that has some very interesting anchor talk by a retailer for Max anchors. The Max is an anchor we have'nt nailed to the board yet. I do'nt much care for the looks of it and it's been sorta marked as a mud anchor but I'm fairly convinced it is much more than that. The guys on the link are a bit over the top but at least many advertising anchors are.

http://www.creativemarine.com/

I think Wingspar in Seattle has one and was very happy w it in the past.







-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 03:44:16 PM
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:08 PM   #30
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Could the Max to too effective?* How does one recover the anchor after it has bured itself 48 feet in the mud.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:49 PM   #31
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RE: Anchor design and performance

Hi Mark,

Not much of a problem. Pull the rode up until*it's vertical minimizing how much you use your winch, tie it off to the deck via cleat or Sampson post or what ever else you've got and back down a bit till you make some slack. Keep repeating until the anchor's up and free. Mark, I have'nt thought about the SF Bay area re the Max but I think it could be the perfect anchor there. Rather ugly but function tops style on this thread.
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