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Old 10-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #41
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knucklebuster,
Glad you've had good experiences anchoring, that you've learned from us and hope you'll stick around. The fishermen here in SE really like the Forfjord but I prefer the Dreadnought. About 25% of the fishermen have the Dreadnought and all are very old I'm sure and I see most are very rusty. The Dreadnought has it's faithful following too. I wish they sold them now. And they all say alls fine until the winter gales reach 60 knots but judging from all the Forfjords w extended flukes all must not be well lots of the time at least in mud and up in SE there is lots of mud bottoms. I've been in 50 knot winds w gusts to probably 60 w an 18lb anchor and all went well. Had to reset because another boat dragged and that set was successful too. But our boat is only 30' and there was no waves. Everybody's anchoring experience seems different. Some ..... no many have anchored for many years w normal size Claws and CQRs and never had a problem. And lots of things happen in this world that aren't likely. The government dosn't require us to have a certain size and type of anchor so we are responsible for our own safety and I'm sure glad of that. I have two anchors that I'd be comfortable w in a 50 knot blow. And I still don't have what I consider to be the best all-around anchor ... SARCA. Don't know why I should buy one now as I'm well covered w what I've got. One should always carry a spare and I've got plenty for that too.
I'm glad you talked about anchoring at 3-1 scope and thereabouts. Many here think that less than 5-1 is irresponsible and foolish. I'm sure most all are on the east coast. I've anchored in over 75' 4 or 5 times and never had enough scope but lucky me it didn't blow. If it had I'd sure feel better if I knew I had an anchor that could make a reasonably good showing on short scope.

1st pic is the extended fluke ForFjord.
2nd pic is of a good example of a Dreadnought.
3rd pic is of a Navy anchor on a yacht in Craig.

Phil Fill,
I see this Navy anchor has the square shank.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:19 PM   #42
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You'd think the Dreadnought would be at a disadvantage against the ForFjord due to its much smaller fluke area.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #43
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I think Marin that the shank part of the fluke gets into the act almost or as as much as the heart shaped ends. That would give it about the same fluke area as the Forfjord. The fluke shanks have an "I" beam shape that probably provides a lot of resistance that probably results in holding power. When buried deeply in a soft bottom those ramp like pads that give the flukes their angle of attack probably offer a lot of resistance also (the top pad). Quite likely it's mud performance is excellent. Pure speculation on my part though. In heavy mud one may need a very good washdown system. This anchor also has the widest throat angle I've ever seen and the tips of the heart shaped ends are sharper than I originally thought. The one time I used mine it set so fast there was no setting operation. I just took up the slack and pulled back. Chris gave a bit more throttle than usual and immediately the rode became very tight. No doubt it was fully set. I'm very impressed w this anchor but I've only used it once. It's the heaviest anchor I've got at 35# and it's all I can comfortably pull w my capstan. Retrieving my 20lb anchors is much easier.

Here are two more examples. Most are rusty like these.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:11 PM   #44
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We have lived on our boat since 1983. Nearly all that time was in
Alaska and there are almost no places in SE Alaska where we haven't
hung our anchor.
We consider all the time we are on a dock to be wasted time. Most often when that occurs we are maintaining the boat or for personal health.

We have seen astonishingly fierce storms and always striven to never
see another. The weather reports some years ago were not very accurate but have dramatically improved since. Our horrible weather experiences have become less frequent as a result.

That being said, I haven't been trying to sell anyone on my anchor system. Rather, I had thought that this forum was looking for the experiences of others to help all have a better perspective of anchoring in general.

I am quite satisfied with my anchoring but realize others might not find it appropriate for themselves. buzzard
Thank you Buzzard for sharing your practical experience. As you may have noticed, not everyone is interested in reality based analyses of what works and makes sense, and what doesn't, but it's great to get your experience. Given the length of chain you carry, I assume you have a reel? Also, what scope are you comfortable with when anchoring? If there is an advantage to newer designs, it seems to be in their ability to hold with lesser scope, but I'd like to hear your opinion.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:55 AM   #45
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Is everyone OK/comfortable?



Thank goodness no one is staying overnight here.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #46
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.....I haven't been trying to sell anyone on my anchor system. Rather, I had thought that this forum was looking for the experiences of others to help all have a better perspective of anchoring in general.

Unless it's there and I missed it, I'd like to know the size of your boat. We use all-chain rode as do most cruising powerboats in this area by my observation. This may have more to do with the ease of using chain with a windlass than the owner's belief that all-chain rode is inherently better for this area. But being just a 36', 30,000 pound boat, we don't carry all that much of it. 200' although were we buying the chain today we'd get 250.'

But we've seen storms come through our home area (Bellingham Bay) that if we had to anchor out in them 600' of chain could seem in our relatively inexperienced eyes to be too little. And at that point no anchor would seem to us to be too large.

As I've stated before my wife and I are not fans of the Bruce anchor. At least not in the small sizes that are used on boats like ours. But regardless of how I feel about the design itself, I'm curious how you stow it for use as a stern anchor? That's the problem with all the non-Danforth-type anchors--- they don't stow well other than on a pulpit or in some manner in which their bulky flukes can hang out into space.

We have a Fortress FX-23 for our stern anchor and we have it mounted in a transom-swimstep mount. But that's easy with this relatively flat anchor.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:52 PM   #47
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Marin, The boat weighs close to 50 tons based on the fact I was unable to be hauled out on a travel-lift rated at that capacity. The keel alone weighs 14000# and the boat is 55' in length and draws 9'. The hull alone (disregarding the keel depth) draws 4 1/2'. buzzard
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:59 PM   #48
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Marin, The boat weighs close to 50 tons based on the fact I was unable to be hauled out on a travel-lift rated at that capacity. The keel alone weighs 14000# and the boat is 55' in length and draws 9'. The hull alone (disregarding the keel depth) draws 4 1/2'. buzzard
Well then 600' of chain and a big-ass anchor sure seems the smart way to go to me.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:09 PM   #49
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Thank you Buzzard for sharing your practical experience. As you may have noticed, not everyone is interested in reality based analyses of what works and makes sense, and what doesn't, but it's great to get your experience. Given the length of chain you carry, I assume you have a reel? Also, what scope are you comfortable with when anchoring? If there is an advantage to newer designs, it seems to be in their ability to hold with lesser scope, but I'd like to hear your opinion.
Delfin, We have two large chain lockers (Aft and Forward) and usually base the scope applied on the prevailing and expected conditions. Also, one is limited, as you know, to staying within the limitations of the size of the bay. Also, the longest fetch must be considered to allow for the effect of sea size that might be experienced. The worst case scenario is an inaccurate weather prediction, unexpected high seas and storm force winds. Happened to us in the Kinnahan (Sp ?) Islands outside of Prince Rupert. I was forced to run into the seas all night and watched as the freighters to the SE of us dragged their anchors and reset them through the night. At that time I was using a 100# Danforth which did not hold due to the wild pitching of the hull with the incoming seas which swept the entire hull. A classically lousy night. buzzard
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:23 PM   #50
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Delfin, We have two large chain lockers (Aft and Forward) and usually base the scope applied on the prevailing and expected conditions. Also, one is limited, as you know, to staying within the limitations of the size of the bay. Also, the longest fetch must be considered to allow for the effect of sea size that might be experienced. The worst case scenario is an inaccurate weather prediction, unexpected high seas and storm force winds. Happened to us in the Kinnahan (Sp ?) Islands outside of Prince Rupert. I was forced to run into the seas all night and watched as the freighters to the SE of us dragged their anchors and reset them through the night. At that time I was using a 100# Danforth which did not hold due to the wild pitching of the hull with the incoming seas which swept the entire hull. A classically lousy night. buzzard
Thanks Buzzard. The reason I asked about scope is that the Forfjord is recommended to be used with what I would call classical standards, that is 7:1, or thereabouts. Sounds like you don't use a hydraulic reel/drum like I see a lot of Alaskan boats using, frequently with a chain/wire combination, which makes the greater scope a little easier to manage.

I appreciate your relating your practical experience - which is always more useful than armchair speculation.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:40 AM   #51
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She can only pick up one at a time. If she could pick up all three, I would have bigger anchors. Actually itís the windless that I am concerned about as that will cost 2 to 3 grand. If we did replace the windless it would be a hydraulic drum like most commercial's have.

Buzzard, I plan on cruising the Canadian inland passage and the Chalet Islands to hook up with a sister 58 in that area. Jim is an old salt retired captain that ran tugs/crew boat in that area and sort of lives off the land/sea. So its good to know and be prepared for the unexpected.

Interesting to play with the anchor size calculation and the Rode calculation by FF. Our 60 ft boat, with a 65# anchor, 175 ft all chain, medium sea bed holding should hold for wind speed of 30 to 40 knots. If the winds kick up to 60 knots the sea bed holding would have to be good and the rode 225+ ft. So the weight of the anchor is important, but so is the anchor rode length, the sea bed holding, and angle of yaw/swing.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:51 PM   #52
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Good data! That's the way I assess my system also. buzzard
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #53
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Phill Fill,
If you use the Forfjord your boat may be better off w a larger anchor. I have a friend in Alaska w a 65# Forfjord on a 30' Willard. It's overkill but very little. Fishermen w Forfjords and your size think a 125# Forfjord isn't big enough. Like the Claws they are usually used used oversized. A 65# Rocna on long scope would be fine I'm sure though as would many other high performance anchors.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:12 AM   #54
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The hassle with all chain , regardless of how long it is , is that under the highest load it is a bar.

With no stretch , shock loads are passed to the anchor.

I believe 50% chain 50% nylon is the "best" storm compromise.

As it makes for a easier time (lowest loads) for the anchor.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:03 PM   #55
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I sort of agree w the 50/50 Fred but with a rode over 275 to 300' or more 50/50 would be a lot of unnecessary chain. You'd rarely get any nylon out. I'd rather have a short length (about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon. Ideally the first length of chain (6-10') would be studded. Longer lengths of lighter chain for areas where there is coral of course. And of course I know I'm wasting my words here as the ideal rode requires a reel winch.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:58 PM   #56
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I sort of agree w the 50/50 Fred but with a rode over 275 to 300' or more 50/50 would be a lot of unnecessary chain. You'd rarely get any nylon out. I'd rather have a short length (about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon. Ideally the first length of chain (6-10') would be studded. Longer lengths of lighter chain for areas where there is coral of course. And of course I know I'm wasting my words here as the ideal rode requires a reel winch.
A 30' half inch snub line serves the same purpose and can be used with all chain in normal conditions, or a 3/4" 50' snub for gales. Either way, running out an extra load of chain after the snubber goes taut gives you the best of both worlds, IMO.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #57
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A 30' half inch snub line serves the same purpose and can be used with all chain in normal conditions, or a 3/4" 50' snub for gales. Either way, running out an extra load of chain after the snubber goes taut gives you the best of both worlds, IMO.
Mine too ...and thousands of world cruisers also....
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:01 PM   #58
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I have an old heavy Northil anchor, 160 chain , close to 200' rode on the drum.

Pulling that stuff back on deck manualy when anchored in 100 feet of water SUCKS !

Talk about a work out.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:20 PM   #59
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I have an old heavy Northil anchor, 160 chain , close to 200' rode on the drum.

Pulling that stuff back on deck manualy when anchored in 100 feet of water SUCKS !

Talk about a work out.
Yeah, my wife complains about it as well...
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:00 AM   #60
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(about 25') of heavy to very heavy chain and lots of nylon

The problem is windlass cost/

Sure a nice 60 lb anchor would benefit from 25 ft of 3/4 or larger heavy chain, BUT if the windlass has to retrieve chain of that size it costs a fortune!!

I have deployed our hurricane anchor 90 Danforth with 7/16 chain with an extra line from the anchor to above the chain , just tied on, so I could pull on chain that does not fit the windlass.

But that is a special case , not for O'nite.

The low bow eye with a selection of light line , NOT long enough to reach the Prop is the low cost easy solution for most cruisers.
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