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Old 01-15-2014, 04:27 PM   #21
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We started using one a few years ago. If for nothing else for liability.
There are enough knuckle heads out there so why not? Outside the US they are pretty common even on some of the smaller vessels. We have one of these and they're less than $20.
I try to remember (about 75% of the time!) to hoist our anchor ball when not in a special or designated anchorage.
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Old 01-15-2014, 04:39 PM   #22
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Bay Pelican flies one whenever anchored - unless I totally forget. It is kept in the same locker as the anchor bridle so I am reminded.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #23
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true.... but there's not that many special anchorages compared to the number of places that people anchor....
I agree. In the SF Bay Area, I'm aware of only one special anchorage, and that is in Richardson Bay. All the other designated anchorages are classified as "general" with rare exception such as an explosives anchorage. My understanding is that a day signal is required in general anchorages during daylight (and appropriate light at night and limited visibility) as well as in non-designated areas.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:01 PM   #24
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Here in the Northeast, I have only ever seen these on mega yachts anchored in Newport, never on smaller private vessels. Most boats do display an anchor light even in designated anchorages, where boats are anchored adjacent and close to moored vessels with neither light nor ball.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:23 PM   #25
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I note that the State of California's handbook of boating law mentions running and anchor lights but none whatsoever on day shapes.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:56 PM   #26
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Surely you can`t just run over a visible anchored boat because it doesn`t display a ball. What`s the alternative: "I thought it was under way, not anchored, so I ran over it. Ok?"
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:23 PM   #27
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Greetings,
Mr. B. In the land of litigation, IF an incident occurs regardless of the circumstances, some lawyer will bring up the issue of compliance with the law. If you are the hittee (as opposed to the hitter) the hitter's lawyer can, regardless of the hitters' guilt or innocence, shift the onus for the accident to you for not displaying proper signals. Whether or not any particular law is enforced or not is not the issue. Your compliance with the law is.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:43 PM   #28
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:50 PM   #29
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Greetings,
Mr. B. In the land of litigation, IF an incident occurs regardless of the circumstances, some lawyer will bring up the issue of compliance with the law. If you are the hittee (as opposed to the hitter) the hitter's lawyer can, regardless of the hitters' guilt or innocence, can shift the onus for the accident to you for not displaying proper signals. Whether or not any particular law is enforced or not is not the issue. Your compliance with the law is.
RTF, I see that, but in civil damages claims as distinct from prosecutions, here at least, there is what lawyers call "contributory negligence/apportionment of liability" to consider. Remember, the final obligation is always to avoid a collision.
In the same way as it`s still not ok to run down a pedestrian crossing the road against a red light, it`s not all black & white.
We had a timber IG bisected here at night near the Harbor Bridge by a cat ferry doing 30 knots on the wrong side of the channel, positioning which fully obstructed the ferry`s view of the IG until the last moment. There was commercial radio chatter of unlit nav lights of the otherwise well lit up IG (it was disputed they were off), so it seemed it was quite visible anyway. Pretty sure the IG came second at a coronial inquest (people died). I never heard the civil result but think it would have apportioned liability between ferry and IG.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:00 PM   #30
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Greetings,
Mr. B. I'm not a lawyer and have a vague knowledge of the law. My comment was based on stupid silly cases I read about in the news. Some woman at MacDonalds scalded herself with hot coffee and won a large settlement from the courts because the cup was not labeled as HOT. Not saying what is right, wrong, admissible, or any other legal term just that it seems in the USA one can be sued (successfully) for farting in an elevator. No rhyme nor reason.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:25 PM   #31
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RTF, we were taught about a US case where someone used a gas lawnmower on wheels as a hedge trimmer, lost some fingers (surprise surprise) the successfully sued maker had to put a warning "not to be used as a hedge trimmer". It is said "hard cases make bad law". Now and then something bizarre happens, but most times civil Courts take a good look to produce a fair result. Prosecutions for breach of regs, like "not display anchor ball" can be absolute, but the civil result of the collision can be "grey" rather than "black & white". And it could be quite different in the US, and in Canada, and I should be careful to respect that.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:18 PM   #32
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Non-pecuniary damages are capped in Canada to ~350K (and adjusted to inflation), punitive damages are unusual, and most civil cases don't see a jury.

Feel free to trim your hedges with whatever you like in Canada, as it won't be profitable in the court of law here.

Oh, and I don't have an anchor ball, nor have I ever seen one displayed on a non-commercial vessel in this area. I have seen conical shapes on motorsailers.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:18 PM   #33
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RTF, we were taught about a US case where someone used a gas lawnmower on wheels as a hedge trimmer, lost some fingers (surprise surprise) the successfully sued maker had to put a warning "not to be used as a hedge trimmer". It is said "hard cases make bad law". Now and then something bizarre happens, but most times civil Courts take a good look to produce a fair result. Prosecutions for breach of regs, like "not display anchor ball" can be absolute, but the civil result of the collision can be "grey" rather than "black & white". And it could be quite different in the US, and in Canada, and I should be careful to respect that.
They should have a blanket disclaimer on all power equipment...

"this equipment should not be used if you are a moron"

That should cover ti..
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:10 PM   #34
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They should have a blanket disclaimer on all power equipment...

"this equipment should not be used if you are a moron"

That should cover ti..
HOLLYWOOD
In workplace injury law, it is generally accepted the only truly safe industrial machine is so protected by safety guards and interlocks it defies any form of use.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:35 AM   #35
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We started using one a few years ago. If for nothing else for liability.
There are enough knuckle heads out there so why not? Outside the US they are pretty common even on some of the smaller vessels. We have one of these and they're less than $20.

Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo.

------------
If I were to make a guess, I would say that 98% of boaters in the USA do not display an anchor ball when anchored in the daytime and 99% of boaters have no idea what an anchor ball is or means. Remember that "boaters" includes anyone operating a boat of any size or type.

------------------
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(c) In a vessel of less than 20 meters in length shapes of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used and the distance apart may be correspondingly reduced.
Well that says a lot. "commensurate with the size of the vessel" So we break out our calculators and do the math ? And is that LOA, waterline, or LOD?
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:41 AM   #36
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Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo.


If I were to make a guess, I would say that 98% of boaters in the USA do not display an anchor ball when anchored in the daytime and 99% of boaters have no idea what an anchor ball is or means.
Unfortunately true and they also have only a vague idea of the rest of the NAVRULES...but it doesn't protect them from being found at least partially at fault when things go wrong...

An anchor ball is an inexpensive (make one for pennies) and easy way to help one's case should something happen beyond one's control.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:42 AM   #37
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Sorry, there wasn't much on the internet 20 years ago.
No, but there are detailed descriptions of every incident involving every cruise ship since the industry expanded in the 1980s.

A loss of steering, a grounding, a collision or allision, cast huge spotlights on the trade and the number of regulators collecting and publishing investigative reports is amazing. Add those to the records compiled by cruise junkies and cruise critics and not much is missed.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:48 AM   #38
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Buying or making an anchor ball should not be an issue. If I can't justify spending $20 on my boat, I need to find a different hobby.

The issue would be storing it, mounting it, and remembering to put it up and take it down each time.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #39
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Buying or making an anchor ball should not be an issue. If I can't justify spending $20 on my boat, I need to find a different hobby.

The issue would be storing it, mounting it, and remembering to put it up and take it down each time.
The take apart /inflatable ones can be stored almost anywhere and mounting possibilities are easy and endless.

Remembering the basic NAVRULES is just part of the description for "captain".
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:20 AM   #40
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...Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo...
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The take apart...ones can be stored almost anywhere and mounting possibilities are easy and endless....
It is black. It's constructed of 2, interlocking pieces of hard plastic so it stores flat.
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