Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-25-2016, 11:29 PM   #61
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
As a sidelight to this discussion, I wonder how many here turn their radar on to calculate and mark other boats and shoreline or points of reference. We have poor ability to judge distances for one thing. And chart plotters only give you a good theory as to where you are. I found the radar handy on a few occasions, even in daylight, and alsways in poor visibility, as it was already on anyway.

I do it all the time. I usually set up a VRM just touching the closest objects so I can tell at a glance if and how we have moved. And if the wether is unsettled, I leave it on all night so I can check it at any time.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline  
Old 08-26-2016, 12:53 AM   #62
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,626
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher500 View Post
We anchor quite a bit but I have never used an anchor alarm. Headed out for two days on the hook tomorrow, solo, and I won't use an alarm. I get it, a good thing to do. But I feel if I set the hook well, watch it all day and into the evening, things are normally solid. The only time I had issues coming unglued was at the initial drop off when I caught a plastic bag or other things down there and it was apparent the anchor was not holding.
Fletch, I'm with you. We might be all out on a limb, but reading all the above has made me tired. I just set the anchor, and get to sleep. Admittedly, I arouse very easily to any change in noise of movement of the boat of significance, and let's face it a turn in the weather enough to cause a drag is hardly going to steal silently up on you. I bet all these nervous folk who set these alarms are up and looking most times well before it ever goes off - come on guys - admit it.

'course, I will resist the temptation to add I'm using a Sarca - oh damn, it slipped out..! Sorry.
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline  
Old 08-26-2016, 07:00 AM   #63
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
I bet all these nervous folk who set these alarms are up and looking most times well before it ever goes off - come on guys - admit it.
Nope, it doesn't happen that way. I've had the alarm go off to wake me. I get weekly emails from boaters telling me how DragQueen saved their boat by waking them at night.

Look, there are all types of risks and care that each of us takes with our own boats and cruising. I'm sure there are some people who never check their engine oil level, turn off thru hulls, or test their float switches. Perhaps those of us who do those things are wasting our time.

...or maybe not
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-26-2016, 07:11 AM   #64
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,525
After 36 years of jobs that quite often woke me up, had me up or had me on the alert...


I wont anchor if I have to worry about it.

In times where anchoring isn't 99% predictable, the alarm is enough to let me sleep pretty soundly. That doesn't preclude the times that I do normally wake up and peek outside for one of my visual clues.
psneeld is offline  
Old 08-26-2016, 09:51 AM   #65
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,742
Haven't had an anchor drag at night in 17 years of cruising. Still sleep better with alarm as anything can happen. And I don't normally get up to check if we are dragging.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is online now  
Old 08-28-2016, 10:39 AM   #66
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
In my opinion, having anchor'd out constantly, over many years, and many boats, this is a non issue.

While factually correct, the whole article is a non issue from a practical sense.

When you set your anchor alarm, it draws a circle around the boat. If the boat goes outside that circle the alarm goes off. Pretty simple.

If you set an alarm circle to the proper "size" then the boat will not go out of the circle and you'll not get false alarms.

You do not determine the "swing circle" size using a calculator, you determine the boats "swing circle" through experience. Really a trial and error process. I have never seen an anchorage where the 40' from my GPS to my bow makes enough difference to be notable from a practical sense.

In my opinion, little email articles like the OP mentioned are advertising, pure and simple. Send out an "article" to your email list to keep people excited about your product. Not a bad concept BTW. Everybody thinks you're company is "helpful" when in reality you are just advertising. Then you can get a bunch of TF members chatting about it online, and yippee, your customer base grows, and you make more $$$ Woo Hoo!!!
That pretty much says it for me as well. Sure, I may get a false alarm if I set the circle too small but I just get up, make sure I'm not drifting and make the circle bigger. I boat to relax, not to make things more complicated than they need to be.
WesK is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 03:28 PM   #67
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
...if I set the circle too small but I just get up, make sure I'm not drifting and make the circle bigger.
So you set the anchor alarm with 75' of chain out at 130' - which is a pretty big over-estimate. Now given your GPS is 40' back from the bow, you're woken up in total darkness at 2 am. Your reliable anchor alarm/position indicator shows that you're 132' back from your anchor. Then 134'...136'...150'...and you are physically drifting backwards.

So now what do you do?

The wrong answer is to start your engine(s) and stop the drift. That's because you haven't dragged 1 inch. You're getting fooled by the GPS/bow double error. You're not dragging until at least 155'.

Reading and really understanding the little advertising piece might allow you to set the alarm properly in the first place because, yes, you would have started your engines in this scenario had it happened like this.
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:37 PM   #68
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
So you set the anchor alarm with 75' of chain out at 130' - which is a pretty big over-estimate. Now given your GPS is 40' back from the bow, you're woken up in total darkness at 2 am. Your reliable anchor alarm/position indicator shows that you're 132' back from your anchor. Then 134'...136'...150'...and you are physically drifting backwards.

So now what do you do?

The wrong answer is to start your engine(s) and stop the drift. That's because you haven't dragged 1 inch. You're getting fooled by the GPS/bow double error. You're not dragging until at least 155'.

Reading and really understanding the little advertising piece might allow you to set the alarm properly in the first place because, yes, you would have started your engines in this scenario had it happened like this.
You are in my opinion over complicating things.

Make the circle big enough that you dont drift out of it. Who cares if its overly big? Between the GPS and a good depth alarm I've been safe, having spent literally hundreds of nights on the hook in several boats of various sizes.

Sometimes we need to leave our slide rules at home and just enjoy our boats.

Your article is not a bad article, it just seems to be intended for folks that spend more time discussing anchoring out than actually doing it.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:43 PM   #69
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,579
Not to mention your plotter track will tell you at a glance what's happening.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:48 PM   #70
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,132
With strong tidal currents switching 180-degrees several times a day, it's difficult not to check the GPS periodically to see if I'm no longer in the "pocket" even if my claw anchor has never failed.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:50 PM   #71
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Make the circle big enough that you dont drift out of it.
Well that's the whole point - how do you know how big to make the circle? Why not just make it 500', right?

And if it's a crowded anchorage and you want to make it as tight as possible, how tight is too tight?
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 04:51 PM   #72
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Not to mention your plotter track will tell you at a glance what's happening.
So you pull in, anchor, and on the first tide switch, it goes off. What good is your plotter track going to do? Perhaps it's been too long since you dropped an anchor.
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 05:05 PM   #73
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,132
About as close as I'd want to "park" next to another boat. (They're farther apart than it looks.)

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:14 PM   #74
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
So you pull in, anchor, and on the first tide switch, it goes off. What good is your plotter track going to do? Perhaps it's been too long since you dropped an anchor.
My plot will settle down to an arc. From that arc, it is easy to visualize the circle within which my boat will always be if my anchor does not drag.
MYTraveler is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:25 PM   #75
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYTraveler View Post
My plot will settle down to an arc. From that arc, it is easy to visualize the circle within which my boat will always be if my anchor does not drag.
Ahh...finally...the arc (circle)...

And that's the subject of next week's newsletter. Because it will never be a circle on your display even though you think it looks like one (or should be one).
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 06:28 PM   #76
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
So you pull in, anchor, and on the first tide switch, it goes off. What good is your plotter track going to do? Perhaps it's been too long since you dropped an anchor.
So much for not getting defensive.

Seriously Jeffery, you need to take a minute after you write a post, reread it a couple of times and think how it's going to come off.

Unlike a lots of us you are are after all the face of a commercial venture. And darn good one IMO.

I say this because, again IMO, that last sentence was unnecessary in the context of the discussion you are having with, or at least in front of, customers.

And yes, I understand you and George have an adversarial history.
Capt.Bill11 is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:08 PM   #77
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
So much for not getting defensive.

Seriously Jeffery, you need to take a minute after you write a post, reread it a couple of times and think how it's going to come off.
Thanks for the advice. I'm happy with my responses. I'm honestly not looking for any reputation management help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Unlike a lots of us you are are after all the face of a commercial venture.
So what? If you don't like my attitude, tone, or use of punctuation, and that effect whether or how you use ActiveCaptain...then don't use it. The whole point of ActiveCaptain is that it's not about me. It's about the community and what they provide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
I say this because, again IMO, that last sentence was unnecessary in the context of the discussion you are having with, or at least in front of, customers.

And yes, I understand you and George have an adversarial history.
George is always quick to come out against whatever position I take. I just don't give a lot of what he says much value since he doesn't have a trawler and hasn't done things like drop an anchor in years. There is nothing wrong with challenging the authority with which people make exclamations here. Many are experts on keyboard cruising...not so much the water type.
Jeffrey S is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:36 PM   #78
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
Thanks for the advice. I'm happy with my responses. I'm honestly not looking for any reputation management help.



So what? If you don't like my attitude, tone, or use of punctuation, and that effect whether or how you use ActiveCaptain...then don't use it. The whole point of ActiveCaptain is that it's not about me. It's about the community and what they provide.


George is always quick to come out against whatever position I take. I just don't give a lot of what he says much value since he doesn't have a trawler and hasn't done things like drop an anchor in years. There is nothing wrong with challenging the authority with which people make exclamations here. Many are experts on keyboard cruising...not so much the water type.


Carry on Jeffery, sorry to trouble you.

Capt.Bill11 is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:40 PM   #79
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
Ahh...finally...the arc (circle)...

And that's the subject of next week's newsletter. Because it will never be a circle on your display even though you think it looks like one (or should be one).
I am not looking for a circle. The arc is enough for me to accurately visualize a circle that will inscribe the plot of anywhere I might swing without dragging. Somehow that has worked for me over the years.

There can't be any serious debate about this, so what is the point of arguing about the value of an arc (if not advertising)?
MYTraveler is offline  
Old 08-28-2016, 07:42 PM   #80
Senior Member
 
City: Buffalo
Country: US
Vessel Name: Almost Perfect
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 48
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason View Post
If I'm receiving valuable, useable information, I don't care if it's advertising or not. Some advertising is informative, some is deceptive. I believe I can discern the difference. You can only fool me once, and then you go to my SPAM folder. I'm in control, the end game is mine.

I do not understand why there is a knee jerk reaction whenever Jeffery posts or emails something. And, if advertising generates revenue that's fine with me. I wish I had developed AC. I think Jeff and Karen deserve all they worked so hard to achieve. Isn't that the American way?
My sentiments exactly Howard. Thank you Jeff for writing Drag Queen and making it available for free.
__________________

Rossland is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012