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Old 08-24-2016, 07:04 PM   #21
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[QUOTE=dhays;472799]FWIW, the initial post for this thread was by Menzies, not Jeffrey.

Yes, I know that. It's the reason I said posts or emails something. This was today's email from Jeffery via AC.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:02 PM   #22
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FWIW, the initial post for this thread was by Menzies, not Jeffrey.

BTW, thanks for posting it Menzies. I found it informative.
The initial posting was a word-for-word copy of something I wrote. For what it's worth...
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #23
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If I'm receiving valuable, useable information, I don't care if it's advertising or not. Some advertising is informative, some is deceptive. I believe I can discern the difference. You can only fool me once, and then you go to my SPAM folder. I'm in control, the end game is mine.

I do not understand why there is a knee jerk reaction whenever Jeffery posts or emails something. And, if advertising generates revenue that's fine with me. I wish I had developed AC. I think Jeff and Karen deserve all they worked so hard to achieve. Isn't that the American way?
Yep, it sure is. Good for them.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:13 PM   #24
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I'm the one that mentioned that the newsletter is advertising.

Just for the record, and to re-clairify what I already said, I have no problem with that form of advertising. The recipients get useful information, so everybody wins.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:35 PM   #25
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That's exactly how Coastal Explorer works. I set up a boundary circle (that's what they call it) at every anchorage, drag it to my boat position right when my anchor hits the bottom, set the radius, then set it to alarm if I go outside the circle. Works great.
I'm not surprised somebody "stole" my great idea.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:38 PM   #26
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Ha! I just Googled it and it looks like Garmin stole my idea too!

Now if I can just figure out where in the menus you have to go to set it up.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:41 AM   #27
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Sometimes where the anchor eventually sets is not where you dropped it, so I don't get all pedantic about it.

Yep, indeed.... and yet another reason to just develop a comfortable system that gets the job done but doesn't grind Captain and Crew down with sightings and calculations requiring accuracy right down to a gnat's a$$.

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Old 08-25-2016, 07:08 AM   #28
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Yep, indeed.... and yet another reason to just develop a comfortable system that gets the job done but doesn't grind Captain and Crew down with sightings and calculations requiring accuracy right down to a gnat's a$$.
Yeah, I agree. It's why I've taken engineers from major manufacturers out in my boat on overnight trips to use the tools they've created in action (and even try prototypes of new things). These tools that we rely upon are created in cubicles by software developers who have never anchored a boat, ever.

It's just a little odd that we're willing to spend $10K ($40K?) on electronics for our trawler and yet don't expect it to work together to solve basic trigonometry to provide one of the most important alarm systems on a boat. Worse than that, most people don't even know the problem exists or why they need to set an anchor alarm at 200' when they only put out 75' of chain with 5:1 scope. Making that sound like it's the accuracy of a "gnat's a$$" shows a total lack of understanding about the potential issue unless you live in the world of giant friggin' gnats. I mean, the Chesapeake has bugs but my experience there has been volume of bugs, not size.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:17 AM   #29
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Maybe not gnats but roaches? Yeah we have some friggin' big ones down here!
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:56 AM   #30
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Like many things here at TF, more than one way to skin a cat.

I use the anchor alarm more as a "position" alarm than if my anchor is dragging.

I don't need it while awake....too old school and sure enough of my visual clues to tell me what I want.

It's when I want to sleep that I need to be alerted to the unexpected or expected but undesired.

I have a pretty good idea where the boat should be for 8 or so hours of sleep.....yes that includes the wind dying off and now following a reversing current and all the other little things that I know from being an experienced boater/cruiser.

While at anchor and before going to bed, I mark as many extreme positions on my chartplotter as I feel necessary to get an idea of where I am swinging without dragging. Then before going to sleep, based on weather and predicted current shifts, I pick a way point that allows me to draw a circle around for safety and I set the alarm to that.

Yes I might not be dragging anchor, but it usually tells me if I have not only drifted to a point where I if I was actually looking outside, I would be concerned because conditions are such I have reversed the pull on the anchor and I am at the extent of my all chain rode, which is not expected. When winds are higher and expected to remain so....generally they will be from the same direction (unless frontal passage which is also predictable to a point) so I make my way point and circle according to those parameters.

I know, not as easy as just pushing one button and being perfectly accurate and safe...but as the article says, for now you have to guess in some inaccuracies...so I take it one step more to where I feel like I can make the error circle much smaller. Yes it will wake me up more, but only when something that jeapordizes a good set anyway, so eyeballing the reset isn't a bad idea anyway....you never know what may have shown up in the anchorage after you went to bed anyway.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:26 AM   #31
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Different approach on the same theme: I go forward of where I want to drop the anchor; set the anchor watch; then drift back and drop the anchor just forward of the spot. This eliminates a lot of the error.

I'm waiting for the real anchor drag alarm system. You will attach a transmitter to your anchor. There will be a receiver hanging off your boat (has to be below the keel). The receiver measures the distances and direction to the transmitter. The receiver takes that information and a GPS position to determine an accurate position of the anchor (transmitter). So instead of monitoring a 200' swing radius of the boat, we keep the anchor in a 25' (to allow for GPS error and anchor reset) radius circle. The transmitter and receiver for underwater use have exited for 20 years already. Someone just needs to build the unit and and the top side box.

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Old 08-25-2016, 08:36 AM   #32
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Funny, I was just thinking the same thing.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:50 AM   #33
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I have not been happy with the circle provided by most anchor alarm systems. I have instead drawn a boundary outside of which Bay Pelican should not go using the Nobeltec Max Pro software. This allows me to set the boundary as a multi sided figure with each side located where I believe the boat should not go. For example I may not want to move 150 feet forward if there is a wind shift, or 150 feet to one side or the other.

An example, it is common in the Eastern Caribbean to count on a steady wind from the east for days, thus one can anchor 50 feet west of shallow water and not worry too much about swinging into the shallows. However, I set my anchor alarm boundary so that if the wind does shift and the boat goes forward the alarm goes off.
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:41 AM   #34
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I'm waiting for the real anchor drag alarm system. You will attach a transmitter to your anchor.
I don't think that'll happen any time soon. It's too easy to just track your position and ultimately, that's what you care about. As a trivial example, it's not unheard of for chain/anchor damage to occur with the chain then disengaging from the anchor. The anchor won't move an inch but my boat might be on its way to Portugal.

As an aside, that scenario is a great reason to keep an anchor alarm alive when on a mooring ball.

But even moreso, by being able to share the positions and anchor set of the boats around me, I can not only monitor their anchor dragging but can also plan my anchor drop based on where they are in their swing, how much they've let out, etc. That doesn't require any wizbang electronics or antenna technology. It just requires an internet connection (or perhaps some of the digital uses being petitioned to the FCC for low power, near use data over one of the marine VHF channels). This is also an obvious extension for AIS which, let's face it, will eventually be required for "homeland security" reasons.

Connectivity, communications, and collaboration are where everything in marine electronics is going. Why not anchoring?
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:50 AM   #35
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I have not been happy with the circle provided by most anchor alarm systems.
You make an excellent suggestion of environmentally-modified anchor alarm zones based on knowing more about an area or being concerned about specific wind shifts.

One other thing to think about...the subject of an upcoming newsletter sure to generate debate here too!

If you set an anchor alarm and the system draws a nice, perfect circle on your nautical chart, there's an error in what you're seeing. This is more noticeable in Maine where I first came across it.

Nautical charts are nearly always displayed with a Mercator projection. When the software developer throws up a perfect circle on the display, they're doing it too cheaply, probably using a built-in API call to draw the circle with a single function call. To do it right, the circle needs to be manually created because it too should be Mercator-projected - few developers understand the trigonometry and projection math needed to do this. Unless you're getting close to the equator, the circle will always look pretty squashed. And yet, they usually don't...
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:00 AM   #36
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If you use a pad or phone anchor alarm.....

Based on our anchor setting videos and one is reasonably assured your anchors sets and holds quickly, if you mark from the bow, right where the anchor drops and hits bottom, the add the distance from the bow to wherever you put the device for the night.....add scope.....isn't that a pretty good radius for your swing?

Yes add 10 feet for GPS error another say 10 for initial drag or as much you thought it did drag, and another 5 for slop....I would think that would work for most of us that uses a pad or phone for an anchor alarm app.

This isn't my idea....someone else posted this year's ago when anchor alarm apps were getting a lot of discussion.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:03 AM   #37
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I don't think that'll happen any time soon. It's too easy to just track your position and ultimately, that's what you care about. As a trivial example, it's not unheard of for chain/anchor damage to occur with the chain then disengaging from the anchor. The anchor won't move an inch but my boat might be on its way to Portugal.
Pretty simple to add a settable maximum value alarm between transmitter and receiver. Would also know where to find my lost anchor.

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As an aside, that scenario is a great reason to keep an anchor alarm alive when on a mooring ball.
Clip the transmitter to the mooring ball or pendant.

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But even moreso, by being able to share the positions and anchor set of the boats around me, I can not only monitor their anchor dragging but can also plan my anchor drop based on where they are in their swing, how much they've let out, etc.
I don't think anchoring information over the internet is going to gain more than modest acceptance. But anyway, you're not monitoring their anchor dragging; you see their boat move and are only guessing why.

I don't care only where they are, I also want to know where their anchor is and how much rode they have out or if they extend it. Your system doesn't tell me that or if they're laying to the wind, current, or both. They may even be softly aground. If I knew where their anchor was and length or rode, I could position myself better to not be hanging over their anchor when they want to leave in the morning.

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That doesn't require any wizbang electronics or antenna technology. It just requires an internet connection (or perhaps some of the digital uses being petitioned to the FCC for low power, near use data over one of the marine VHF channels). This is also an obvious extension for AIS which, let's face it, will eventually be required for "homeland security" reasons.

Connectivity, communications, and collaboration are where everything in marine electronics is going. Why not anchoring?
Think the right to privacy laws and the courts will prevent that. They may establishing more controlled area's that require AIS to enter, much like controlled air space around cities, military bases, and airports.

While I think you will see more acceptance of AIS, don't think advertising your anchorage for the night on the internet is going to gain widespread acceptance. While your system is innovative, if the boats around me don't agree to share their information with me over your system, then they don't exist to me on your system, do they?

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Old 08-25-2016, 11:41 AM   #38
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As a sidelight to this discussion, I wonder how many here turn their radar on to calculate and mark other boats and shoreline or points of reference. We have poor ability to judge distances for one thing. And chart plotters only give you a good theory as to where you are. I found the radar handy on a few occasions, even in daylight, and alsways in poor visibility, as it was already on anyway.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:07 PM   #39
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As a sidelight to this discussion, I wonder how many here turn their radar on to calculate and mark other boats and shoreline or points of reference. We have poor ability to judge distances for one thing. And chart plotters only give you a good theory as to where you are. I found the radar handy on a few occasions, even in daylight, and alsways in poor visibility, as it was already on anyway.
While I haven't tried it, I guess if you had radar with plotter overlay and ARPA, you could mark the boats around you, turn on the tail feature, and track the boats and their position changes as they swing on their anchors.

If I need that, I probably need to find a less crowded anchorage.

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Old 08-25-2016, 12:18 PM   #40
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As a sidelight to this discussion, I wonder how many here turn their radar on to calculate and mark other boats and shoreline or points of reference. We have poor ability to judge distances for one thing. And chart plotters only give you a good theory as to where you are. I found the radar handy on a few occasions, even in daylight, and alsways in poor visibility, as it was already on anyway.
Never tried it, but interesting idea.
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