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Old 03-01-2015, 02:51 PM   #121
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The best part of the story...was the chain parted but he was confident in his Bruce Anchor....


I love it when a plan comes together.


Didn't see WHY he thought his chain parted...but the next time I'm in 185 knots winds...I woun't trust my chain either...I'll go for a combo rode cause I doubt chafe will be an issue...
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:56 PM   #122
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Boats 28 to 40 feet long

For many reasons and most circumstances; I recommend:

Applicable size/style anchor attached to 12' chain with line there after.

Ez-Pizie!
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Old 03-01-2015, 04:41 PM   #123
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Not for this 39.4 footer...all chain all the time...

But for the cheap seats...with a snubber..all chain IS a combo rode...
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Old 03-01-2015, 05:17 PM   #124
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Remember Yale's site is advertising as well as informational. Their claim that their brait absorbs 75% more energy than laid line means it would stretch that much more. Other information I have read says that brait stretches LESS than laid line, and absorbs less energy. Stuff sure packs pretty in a glass box though!
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Old 03-01-2015, 05:30 PM   #125
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The "braid" line takes up less room than chain......
My apologies...I meant "brait."
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:27 PM   #126
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Other information I have read says that brait stretches LESS than laid line, and absorbs less energy. Stuff sure packs pretty in a glass box though!
Yes, it seems it stretches less than the 3-strand. My 5/8 Brait is also a bit heavier line than the original 3-strand twist which I think was 1/2 inch.

It sure packs nice and pretty in my anchor locker, too. I love the stuff and would not use anything different on my combo rode.
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:38 PM   #127
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Obviously I agree w you Art as that's what I do most all the time. But like the SE Alaska fishermen I put 3 or 4' of heavier chain next to the anchor and the other 8 or so feet (smaller) between the heavy chain and the line. I have 430' of Brait snd I haven't turned it around yet. I may cut 100' off. Then I could probably get my Supreme anchor in the box w the rest of line.

We talked about weight and catenary several years ago and somebody said that the ideal place for weight for attaining the flattest rode possible was about 20% of the way up the rode from the anchor. Of course it would vary w scope and rode length to some degree. I'll bet this is true and so some benefit could be had if I was to turn my chain around so the smaller chain was connected to the anchor and the heavier part connected to the line .. as in swap ends. And I suppose the best place for a Kellet would be as described above .. 20% of the way up the rode.

But if the catenary actually disappears in a big blow and the chain isn't affecting the catenary, then the reason for having chain to increase catenary is pointless. Many have said the catenary disappears at some point. But even if it just gets very small extremely little benefit would result.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:51 PM   #128
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But for the cheap seats...with a snubber..all chain IS a combo rode...
Damn good point!
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:01 PM   #129
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Damn good point!
It has been stated numerous times by many...never seems to do any good.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:10 PM   #130
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I just showed the Sicilian 5/8" brait on the internet and she is all for it. Not only will we get rid of the perpetual rust stain from the chain locker weep hole, we will also lose 600 pounds off the bow. The Sicilian says, "Grazie Mille."
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:45 PM   #131
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I just showed the Sicilian 5/8" brait on the internet and she is all for it. Not only will we get rid of the perpetual rust stain from the chain locker weep hole, we will also lose 600 pounds off the bow. The Sicilian says, "Grazie Mille."
I would implor you to try out a line rode in your windlass prior to discarding your chain if you have not already.

The reason I say this is that my Muir Cougar windlass might be rated for combo rode, and it might have a combo gypsy, but it won't actually reliably haul the line portion through the gypsy. It takes the capstan to do that.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:31 PM   #132
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Also, check with your windlass mfr to verify the recommended Brait size. I was advised to upsize the line by one size for my Lewmar PS1000 windlass. I went from 9/16 3-ply to 5/8 plait.

I had to have a diver cut 30 ft from the rode after a "bad anchoring event". Suffice to say, it's a loooong story. That segment has become one of my favorite dock lines.

Oh, c'mon...admit it. We all have a favorite line, right?
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:33 AM   #133
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The reason I say this is that my Muir Cougar windlass might be rated for combo rode, and it might have a combo gypsy, but it won't actually reliably haul the line portion through the gypsy. It takes the capstan to do that.
I had a similar problem with my Muir 1200 VRC that I wrote about on this forum and it was solved by using a larger diameter line. I would suggest getting a 15-20 ft length (or more if you can) and feed it into your windlass. Stand on the dock with the other end and brace yourself as your wife hits the windlass control to reel you in.If the line slips, go to the next bigger size. If it doesn't slip and pulls you toward the bow, you have the right size.
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:36 AM   #134
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Also, check with your windlass mfr to verify the recommended Brait size. I was advised to upsize the line by one size for my Lewmar PS1000 windlass. I went from 9/16 3-ply to 5/8 plait.
The biggest problem of a combination windlass slipping is the use of the wrong size anchor line. Go bigger!
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:45 AM   #135
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It depends on the boat's characteristics. On previous boats, all sailboats weighing four tons and less, a combination chain and rope rode made sense. But with my 14-ton motor vessel, all chain works. And if I needed more rode than 200 feet, the boat could easily handle 50% and even 100% more chain as the vessel tends to be stern-heavy anyway.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:17 AM   #136
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But if the catenary actually disappears in a big blow and the chain isn't affecting the catenary, then the reason for having chain to increase catenary is pointless. Many have said the catenary disappears at some point. But even if it just gets very small extremely little benefit would result.

Not sure I follow your point.

With all chain, catenary will be present in light to moderate to some heavier winds... even if in the latter, catenary comes and goes. With all rope, catenary might be present in light winds, sometimes in moderate winds, maybe not at all in heavy winds. With a combo rode and depending on chain length/size/etc., catenary will fall somewhere in between.

But just 'cause it "disappears at some point" that doesn't seem like a reason to voluntarily lower the disappearance point.

???

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Old 03-02-2015, 10:37 AM   #137
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Ranger,
I think it started a long time ago by Peter Smith or Dashew saying that catenary didn't count because when the wind really blew the cat disappeared. I personally think there will always be some small amount of cat even w a light chain but all chain cat becomes so small that it probably won't have any affect on anchor performance.

So one would probably have much more anchor performance just by getting a better anchor. Of course it's hard to know just what anchor is better. Better in weed, better in holding, better in mud, better at short scope, better on rocky bottoms ect. But if you get duplicate of the anchor you have it's guaranteed it will be better. Most likely that's the source of the "bigger is better" bandwagon.

The question re this thread is .. does the anchor performance benefit enough with an all chain rode to justify the expense and requirement to carry an extra several hundred pounds of weight on the bow to justify the chain? We carried a full sized spare tire in the trunk wherever we went until someone questioned if it was necessary .. and then we got the donut. But our cars perform better.
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:59 AM   #138
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Ranger,
I think it started a long time ago by Peter Smith or Dashew saying that catenary didn't count because when the wind really blew the cat disappeared. I personally think there will always be some small amount of cat even w a light chain but all chain cat becomes so small that it probably won't have any affect on anchor performance.

Seems to me "doesn't count" is an odd way to look at it. Seems to me it counts (helps) until it's gone. And it's usually going to be gone earlier with rope or combo before it's gone with all-chain.

Seems to me saying catenary doesn't count is the same as saying chain is only good for abrasion mitigation down near the anchor.

Don't know that I've read anyone else espousing something like that?

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Old 03-02-2015, 11:17 AM   #139
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Well Kevin, it looks like you screwed up big time in getting a good anchor windlass and all chain rode. But, at least you are in good company.

By the way, as has been known for centuries, rope rode internally abraids away as it picks up dirt and sand. New rope WLL starts degrading from anchor drop 1, so how does the time for replacement get established? My sail boat racing experience remembrance has sheets getting replaced frequently, and they are not lying on the rocky sandy bottom.
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Old 03-02-2015, 11:19 AM   #140
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Well Kevin, it looks like you screwed up big time in getting a good anchor windlass and all chain rode. But, at least you are in good company.

If I'm going to be wrong, at least I'm not going to be wrong alone!
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