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Old 04-22-2014, 09:29 PM   #21
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If you think it takes a while to get ride of 200' of chain....don't...on freespool with my windlass or just yank it off the wildcat...that chain is gone in maybe a minute.....or as fast as you can run and get a knife or to the throttles and back again to cut the tag end. I have 100 feet of poly on the end so when I come back to look for it...hopefully there's a bit floating on the surface.
Situations that come to my mind (and I have seen) where one would want to loose ones anchor would involve drifting down on a seawall or ledge in a blow where singlehanded paying out the remainder of the chain would be time consuming and possibly fouling in 100' of floating line could be disasterous. So my vote is for rope/chain rode and a sharp knife.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:38 PM   #22
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Situations that come to my mind (and I have seen) where one would want to loose ones anchor would involve drifting down on a seawall or ledge in a blow where singlehanded paying out the remainder of the chain would be time consuming and possibly fouling in 100' of floating line could be disasterous. So my vote is for rope/chain rode and a sharp knife.
You can start moving as the chain is free falling and the poly line is light enough to not be much of a threat and could be easily avoided.

People have been doing it for years with all chain rodes...if it were that big of a deal...there would be much more caution written about it...and it's usually the opposite, for cruisers they prefer the simplicity of it as long as your windlass and bow buoyancy can handle it.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:53 PM   #23
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In a real blow I don't think I would want to have to go on deck to attach a line to a chain under strain and then hope all goes well when it comes time to pay it out.

I think the size and type of anchor you have out is perhaps more important in short scope situations then whether you have all chain rode or not.

And a claw is about the last anchor I'd want out in a storm. To much chance of dragging.
Capt.Bill11,
I agree the anchor is more important than the rode type. And the chain rode would have a Claw twice as big as normal. For my 30' boat I'm talk'in a 44# Claw. I don't think it would drag. I anchored in a 50 knot gale w a 13# high performance anchor for a day and a half and didn't drag. I could use another modern anchor w good holding power at 3-1 scope that would weigh less than the Claw but may not be good in rocky bottoms or store perfectly on my bow.

But as I said the normal heavy weather ground tackle would be a seprate rode (500') hand deployed in all nylon and a modern high performance anchor like a Manson Supreme or Fortress. 28lbs for the MS and 22lbs for the Fortress. They would not drag.

The all chain rode would be for everyday light duty service that would provide a very small swinging radius.

Most people have to or more anchor types on board to deal w different bottom conditions. I'm thinking two different rodes for different conditions.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:12 PM   #24
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Had the rope rodes been subjected to wet and freezing? We tended not to run a line that was in anyway frozen over the capstains.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:26 PM   #25
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Breaking wasn't the fault of partial rodes though as many use them just as religiously an don't break. Could be many reason that they broke...but not just because of the design.

Because most all chain rode cruisers also use a snubber...it's like a combo rode for performance...just has a backup in there if the snubber breaks.

To me the ONLY reason to use an all chain rode in because it's the easies to do with a windlass...and before the combo windlass guys get all excited...I have use PLENTY of combo windlasses (wildcats capable of both chain/rope) and had too many slip if the rope or conditions weren't near perfect. I know...keep them that way but all chain is just easier in my book.

And washing it off as it comes up hasn't been an issue for me.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:46 AM   #26
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We carry 600' of rope plus 100' of chain.

I'd go for a all chain setup, except that we often anchor for fishing in 300' of water and my windlass won't reliably break out and lift 300' of chain plus our 30 kg anchor.

BTW we're going shrimping first trip out weekend after next. Thought you might like to know.
Beer batter halibut and garlic shrimp over an open fire......um um
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:22 AM   #27
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Do you have insight into why the ropes broke? 30 knot winds doesn't explain it...



-Chris
My understanding (owners comments) as to why the ropes broke is:

First boat. Prior to breaking there were light winds where the boats in the anchorage floated (not pulling on the rode for the most part). Rode wrapped around a piece of coral/rock. Days later when the winds picked up the rode chafted through by action against the coral/rock.

Second boat - rode chafted through at the bow roller.
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:16 AM   #28
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My understanding (owners comments) as to why the ropes broke is:

First boat. Prior to breaking there were light winds where the boats in the anchorage floated (not pulling on the rode for the most part). Rode wrapped around a piece of coral/rock. Days later when the winds picked up the rode chafted through by action against the coral/rock.

Second boat - rode chafted through at the bow roller.

Sounds like maybe both situations were avoidable.

Maybe their chain leader was very short? Too short?

Maybe the rope wasn't riding properly in the roller? Or the roller wasn't rolling? Or maybe the rope wasn't the right size/type for the load?

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Old 04-23-2014, 08:18 AM   #29
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For you experience owners out there.

My boat is going on water and I have two anchor set ups: (boat weights 55000 lbs)
Main:
110 lbs Bruce + 164' x 3/8" BBB + 300' x 3/4" 3 strand poly - My investigation shows that in Brazil only foreigners use 100% chain.
Second set up:
Fortress F85 +40' X 3/8" BBB + 750' X 3/4" 3 strand poly
Are these good set ups to begin with?

Comments are welcome

Thank you
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:34 AM   #30
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Fernando, I like your set up, but poly? I have always used nylon because of the stretching ability. It takes the shock out of the line, and will not float on the surface when the rode is slack. Poly is also affected more by UV rays, and the short broken fibers are rough on the hands. Any particular reason that you are using poly?
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:51 AM   #31
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Fernando, I like your set up, but poly? I have always used nylon because of the stretching ability. It takes the shock out of the line, and will not float on the surface when the rode is slack. Poly is also affected more by UV rays, and the short broken fibers are rough on the hands. Any particular reason that you are using poly?
My guess is its an English is his second language thing and he is really using nylon.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:42 AM   #32
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I used the expression "all chain mentality" that I picked up from another member here but I think it goes further than that.

Look at our boats. Heavy. Big and heavy. "Bigger is better" is wallowing around in this mentality also. Even my boat for 30' and 8 tons is heavy chunk of boat. Most say look at the anchor specs and then get the next size up. Bigger is better. Balderdash w what the anchor manufacturers say. What do they know? And the word bigger is almost the same as the word heavy.

It should be no surprise that trawler owners should gravitate to bigger and heavier. Look at trawler boats. The single most descriptive word to describe a trawler is heavy. That's even what they were called before the word trawler came along. Heavy Cruisers. And what can be bigger and heavier than a north sea trawler? Not many things in this world.

Bigger is better. Is it true? Relative to anchors of course it's true. If you keep all the many other variables the same and get a bigger anchor it will hold a boat in place better. Of course the anchor being heavier the boat will be heavier and at the least desirable end and it will cost more. Both bad.

But Fortress Anchors have shown us that heavier is not better relative to holding power. The very fact that the highest holding power anchor in the world is also the lightest shows us that the anchor design is most important. Clearly the anchor design is the dominating factor in performance .... not weight.

And it has been said and generally accepted that chain in the rode establishes and maintains more catenary in the rode. Dashew and others thought to be in the know have said over and over that in a big blow w a high holding power anchor all catenary will be pulled out of the rode even if it's all chain. So catenary has squat to do w holding power w HP anchors. In defense of catenary however it has a significant effect on setting performance IMO.

So from a standpoint of holding power chain in the rode has little at best to do w holding power.

I think the biggest advantages to a chain rode is convenience and catenary while the anchor is being set.

But if an anchor will set dependably w/o chain why use it?

Convenience. That's what it boils down to.

But convenience is not to be sneered at. It can be very important. Most all of us are old and pulling anchor with a capstan is work. Not good for many backs (mine included). Probably the biggest reason the Claw is so popular is that they hang so easily on the bow. And Bruce anchors were hugely popular in the 70s when most of our trawlers were made and adorned w a Bruce or Claw anchor. Most other anchors will require special arrangements be made on the bow and most of us have other things to do so there the Bruce and Claws proudly sit.

But re the rode choice if you can get over the convenience factor it looks like nylon line is better than chain. But as a boat gets bigger using line gets less and less convenient until all ships use all chain. Can you imagine a ship's crew weighing anchor w line over a capstan? For that matter on a 55' trawler? Ever seen a 20' boat w all chain?

So it looks to me that the choice is dependent on convenience. When line can't be handled conveniently chain is the way to go. Which is better has most to do w the size of your boat. Or better put the size of your anchor. If I had a 55lb anchor I'd probably immediately switch to chain. I may anyway on one rode ........ for convenience.

Left out on this post are considerations re the line to chain splice and the possible wear on the line going over the gypsy. Also the need for chain or cable on coral bottoms.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:58 PM   #33
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Sounds like maybe both situations were avoidable.

Maybe their chain leader was very short? Too short?



-Chris
75 ft chain, 75+ ft nylon, they were anchored in 35 ft of water.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:30 PM   #34
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Don

Thanks. Capt Bill is correct in his assessment. I have confused the ropes. It is nylon and according to my wife, it is so smooth at touch that it feels like silk.

I am happy with your opinions because I was reluctant with the main arrangement. When in Rome do like the romans. So far the only justification I found for 100% chain is maintenance

Thanks
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:11 PM   #35
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75 ft chain, 75+ ft nylon, they were anchored in 35 ft of water.


Hmmm.... well and sometimes it's just bad luck.

I've not anchored near coral, so haven't encountered a situation where the rope portion could somehow become entangled and then get cut in two...

OTOH, if we had different holding ground around here (not so much mud), I wouldn't necessarily use a rope/chain rode... To me, the rode composition is very situational...

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Old 04-23-2014, 10:02 PM   #36
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The first issue with anchoring is where you do it. The selection of anchor chain and or rode might vary based on the first issue. Where I now anchor in the NW is very different than where I used to anchor Mid ICW east coast.,and both differ from the VI. I see little point in arguing rode or chain they both have their place. Lots of chain in the bow costs in $ and boat ride safety and performance. So if you anchor where you don't need lots of chain why Cary the weight. If you anchor on your way to Alaska its hard to have too much and best to have a boat that can handle the weight.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:40 AM   #37
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>The very fact that the highest holding power anchor in the world is also the lightest shows us that the anchor design is most important. Clearly the anchor design is the dominating factor in performance .... not weight.<

Perhaps AFTER the anchor is set , but it takes weight to get thru some bottoms and grass..

The Fortress is a knock off of a WWII Danforth , and suffers from the same hassle.

In a reversing situation the Danforth can pull and have to reset it self .

A high windage boat can drift travel fast enough to plane the Steel Danforth , never mind the aluminum copy.

OGG the inventor of the Danforth anchor , in his book, gives the cure.

2 anchors one in front , one in the rear , lead aboard fwd.

This then becomes what today is referred to as a Bahama Moore , probably the safest anchor system .

With practice the stern anchor is a 3 or 4 min job , regardless of the boat size.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:21 AM   #38
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>

With practice the stern anchor is a 3 or 4 min job , regardless of the boat size.
Yeah 3-4 min to set up and an hour to undo once the rodes twist or foul after the boat swings around a few times :-)
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:13 PM   #39
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Don't care for anchors fore and aft. If you get any significant wind from either side of the boat the pull on the rodes will be very high.

But most anchoring is done in the calm part of the day. And sometimes the anchorage is so small it's the safest thing to do.

Almost did it once … and we should have. Banged on a rock at 2am. A third anchor on one side could limit one's movement even further.

And if there are other boats near it could be a tangled mass of boats at some point some being on chain and others on a line rode.

After being in AK so long anchoring in crowded anchorages is something I'm leery of.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:28 PM   #40
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The solution to wind that clocks around is the port Washington mooring SX. This system was developed many years ago using three Danforth type anchors each set 60 degrees separation with 60-90 foot of chain linked to a ring that a single rode is attached to. This system can be set from a dinghy with some time and effort. Excellent for a self maintenance mooring or hurricane rig. Not so good for short term unless you enjoy spending a couple of hours setting and retrieving your rig. I throw this in here because it can be useful to know about for certain longer term mooring and it can be carried on a boat and used Danforths are cheap.
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