Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-05-2015, 06:31 PM   #261
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,896
I don't know....I think even the newbies if they lurk for a few months and read the tech threads and not the endless feel good babble ones...I think they figure out who knows what and where to go for further info (good posters include links enough to show where their posts fit in the world).

if not, enough reality drifts in and out of threads that it gives a slight heads up where to go for more info.

Sometimes I search for stuff and and can't find it till someone in a thread uses the correct terminology or name and bingo...home run.
__________________
Advertisement

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 06:44 PM   #262
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
I agree with you but I believe one can find good information a lot faster in person than hanging around a forum for a few months.

We recently wanted to change the sight tubes on our fuel tanks. I could have asked a forum or two, and I would have gotten endless posts that dragged on for days if not weeks about use this, use that, don't use this, and so on.

Instead I picked up the phone and called a friend who's been in the marine industry for a lot of decades and has dealt with this exact issue countless times in everything from old cruisers like ours to newbuild superyachts. I had the right answer in five minutes including where to get the material.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 07:14 PM   #263
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
I agree with you but I believe one can find good information a lot faster in person than hanging around a forum for a few months.

We recently wanted to change the sight tubes on our fuel tanks. I could have asked a forum or two, and I would have gotten endless posts that dragged on for days if not weeks about use this, use that, don't use this, and so on.

Instead I picked up the phone and called a friend who's been in the marine industry for a lot of decades and has dealt with this exact issue countless times in everything from old cruisers like ours to newbuild superyachts. I had the right answer in five minutes including where to get the material.
Not everyone has contacts...and many so called shipwrights and marina/yard professionals I have encountered actually know less than some here about specific topics.

It is like going to your doctor after you have painstakingly researched something you think is wrong with you...chances are, you know more than him/her if it is unusual....and know as much as all but the absolute top specialists in the world. When it come to long term treatment...sure you have to be in good hands..but up front..just knowing the basics is extremely valuable and a lot of that can come from the internet.

I don't suggest doing self service brain surgery from threads in the general maintenance section...but they may point you in the right direction who can...more so than the top dog at your marina/yard.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 07:50 PM   #264
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Not everyone has contacts...
Absolutely true. But had I not had this particular contact, I know how to go about finding people like this in this area.

I've said this before, but a college professor I had once told our class that the only lasting value of an education is learning how to learn. Which means figuring out the path to follow to find the person or people who know what you need to know.

We all do this to some extent, some better than others. The other day I had to hire a video crew in Beijing to shoot something for me that was not cost-effective for us to go over and do ourselves. I'd never had to do this before. It took something like three e-mails and coupe of phone calls and by midnight of the same day (time difference, remember?) we had a first rate crew lined up and hired. It's all about knowing how to learn.

The internet is a handy tool, no question. It's primary value to me has been for historical research. But I never use the internet to get answers to questions having to do with our boats or our vehicles or plane or the health of our lawn. If I don't already know who to contact, I figure out the path to get to the kinds of people to contact and then follow that path. And so far, it has worked successfuly every time, or at least every time that I can remember.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 08:13 PM   #265
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Marin has stated in post 260 exactly what runs through my head every time I see a newbie ask a significant question particularly one where opinion and bias are common. Some things I believe should not be decided on the internet. I have six kids and I am a single mom never spent any time on a boat should I live aboard? What kind of boat should I buy? What anchor should I use? There are many things I can learn from the net but not answers to those types of questions.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 08:36 PM   #266
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
More comparisons between nylon and polyester;

BoatUS – Hurricane Center – Nylon Lines
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 10:29 PM   #267
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Makes you wonder how most of us managed to get into boating without killing ourselves before Al Gore invented the internet.

Personally, I think it's a mistake for a newbie to try to get meaningful information off the internet. All he or she will get are endless discussions containing opinions from people who he or she has no way of judging their credibility.

This is why I firmly believe-- regardless of the activity: boating, flying, hiking, fishing, off-road driving, you name it--- in searching out the information one needs in person from real live people who's credibility you can judge in person based on something other than what they typed on an open forum.

I use Al Gore's fancy ether box to find out where I can buy the toaster I want or what hotel is good to use in downtown Beijing, but I never use it to find out important stuff like what's the correct oil for my engine or what's the best rode and anchor to use for our boat in this region. For that info, I go to people I have learned of or searched out who I can determine for myself have the exprience and knowledge about the particular subject I'm interested in.

Forum's like this are great places to entertain ourselves bickering about anchors and rodes and hull types and whatever. They are, in my opinion, terrible places for newbies to try and get the infomation one needs when one is starting out in an activity. If I were a newbie to boating and asked on this forum the kinds of questions we needed anwered when we started out, I'd be scared to death to even consider getting a boat because I'd become convinced that whatever we did, it would be horribly wrong in somebody's opinon.

Fortuantely we deliberately didn't use the internet when we decided to get into cruising, and our boat selection and boat buying experience was terrific as well as being a hell of a lot of fun. And we got exactly the right boat for our needs at the time.
Party Pooper!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 10:44 PM   #268
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Party Pooper!
Art--- I suspect from reading your posts over the years that your introduction to boating came long before Al Gore invented the internet. You learned by asking questions of people you personally knew and trusted, and hunted up people to talk to when you didn't already know someone with the needed knowledge or experience.

And from your posts, I get the impression that you did just fine and have had great boating experiences with no necessity to resort to a computer keyboard to find something out.

You talked to someone when you had a question, maybe more than one person, and having met them you were able to judge their character, integrity, and credibility and then make your own decision on what to do based on what you learned and what you felt was the best course of action.

I doubt that you needed to get the consensus of half the country to decide when you should run your generator if you had one. I doubt you needed the Linus-blanket, thumb-sucking reassurance of a faceless internet crowd when you decided what anchors to use on your boats, or what oil to use in your engines.

I suspect you are one of those people to whom an internet forum is a fun past-time but is certainly not necessary for you and your family to get the maximum best experience from boating. I suspect that if ISIS took out the US's entire internet system tomorrow (or if Al Gore decided to turn it off in pure petulance), it would not make a dent in your ability to operate your boat and make decisions about your boating.

Am I right?
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 11:08 PM   #269
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Eric-- One final comment and then I think I'm done. If you put the weight close to the anchor you are in effect making the anchor heavier, which in itself is not a bad thing of course.

But if there is a lot of pressure on the rode, the angle of pull on the weight will be quite high which will reduce the effectiveness of the weight and may even lift it thus increasing the angle of pull on the anchor itself because the weight is so close. So you're back to where you started.

If the weight is farther out from the anchor the pressure will still lift it up but because there is some distance now between the weight and the anchor, the angle of pull on the anchor will be somewhat less. Which is all that matters.

As I said, all-chain elminates the need to screw around with the "where to put the weight" question which is why we chose to use it.
Have to agree Eric, as when all is said and done, for the catenary to be removed completely by the role rode being pulled straight, thus putting the maximum force on the anchor, which is what we want to avoid, this requires the weight of the whole rode to be pulled taught and lifted. That will/must occur earlier with mixed rode because the synthetic component is much lighter than chain, so the combined rode weight, which is all that's relevant here, is a lot lighter than it would be with the same length of all chain. That is simple unalterable physics.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #270
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post

I doubt that you needed to get the consensus of half the country to decide when you should run your generator if you had one. I doubt you needed the Linus-blanket, thumb-sucking reassurance of a faceless internet crowd when you decided what anchors to use on your boats, or what oil to use in your engines.
Marin,

If you don't like the questions asked, you don't need to answer. It strikes me as a rather belligerent and condescending attitude to cast aspersions upon those with less experience who are either asking a legitimate question or interested in starting a discussion on a topic.

Live and let live. If you don't like it, don't post. If you have something constructive to contribute, go for it...the more succinct, the better.

But you're very wrong to think you're the only one who can be right and must always have the last word while the others here are wrong. Give the judgmental BS a break already!!
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 11:53 PM   #271
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post

But you're very wrong to think you're the only one who can be right and must always have the last word while the others here are wrong. Give the judgmental BS a break already!!
You're right Al, and I appologize. It's easy to get carried away with this stuff, particularly when it's just words on a screen with no person in front of you to key off of.

Which is another problem with the internet but we'll leave that one alone.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 11:59 PM   #272
Senior Member
 
MikeD's Avatar
 
City: Port Havelock
Country: New Zealand
Vessel Name: Siesta
Vessel Model: Pelin Sterling 36
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
You're right Al, and I appologize. It's easy to get carried away with this stuff, particularly when it's just words on a screen with no person in front of you to key off of.

Which is another problem with the internet but we'll leave that one alone.
Well done, I personally think there has been way too many words on this subject from a few people. This thread got to the point where I was only reading it for a laugh and I don't think that was anyones intention.

Anyway, time to get boating people and get some more real experience.
__________________
Mike

"To fish or not to fish, what a silly question. "
MikeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 12:11 AM   #273
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
You're right Al, and I appologize. It's easy to get carried away with this stuff, particularly when it's just words on a screen with no person in front of you to key off of.

Which is another problem with the internet but we'll leave that one alone.
Thank you
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 01:16 AM   #274
keb
Senior Member
 
keb's Avatar
 
City: Portland, OR
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 129
Yeah and what about anchors anyway! 😀


Kevin
Portland, OR
keb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 02:21 AM   #275
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Art--- I suspect from reading your posts over the years that your introduction to boating came long before Al Gore invented the internet. You learned by asking questions of people you personally knew and trusted, and hunted up people to talk to when you didn't already know someone with the needed knowledge or experience.

And from your posts, I get the impression that you did just fine and have had great boating experiences with no necessity to resort to a computer keyboard to find something out.

You talked to someone when you had a question, maybe more than one person, and having met them you were able to judge their character, integrity, and credibility and then make your own decision on what to do based on what you learned and what you felt was the best course of action.

I doubt that you needed to get the consensus of half the country to decide when you should run your generator if you had one. I doubt you needed the Linus-blanket, thumb-sucking reassurance of a faceless internet crowd when you decided what anchors to use on your boats, or what oil to use in your engines.

I suspect you are one of those people to whom an internet forum is a fun past-time but is certainly not necessary for you and your family to get the maximum best experience from boating. I suspect that if ISIS took out the US's entire internet system tomorrow (or if Al Gore decided to turn it off in pure petulance), it would not make a dent in your ability to operate your boat and make decisions about your boating.

Am I right?
Marin

First of all "Party Pooper" was meant in jest. Please don't take everything I say as seriousness. I enjoy poking people in the ribs sometimes... just to get a grin/chuckle. You included!

Correct-o-Rama, about me in general: However, I had the privilege to slowly/thoroughly learn intricacies of boating and marine life, virtually from birth. Therefore during decades before internet (even before public computer access) I learned via year after year of hands-on marine/boat experiences accompanied by good teaching from boating/marine pros. As well as constantly reading in boating magazines and books.

Now, Fast Forward to Q1 21st Century: Insta-access to nearly unlimited info and communications and item searches on the net. Then think of the people who did not have my privileged boat experience during upbringing, but that want to begin boating in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s I feel it is OK for those newbie-boater people to review TF and other forums to enhance and improve their boat-learning experiences; hoping that boat/marine-experienced contributors in the forums tell things as best and truthfully as they [we] can. Of course there will be challenges, disagreements, and also comradery pertaining to topics discussed. That provides flavor and gives depth into forum chats. The same chats that newbie, want-to-be, boaters can read for vicarious experiences and can use as their beginners break-in to boating.

That said I greatly respect the offered input from many of the boater/contributors on TF; you very much included. Personally, as I feel most others here do also, I try to not state items of which I have experience incorrectly or misleadingly. Also, I have learned more than a few things vis others posts yours included!

All n All Im in favor of most boating/marine forums. In addition to being cool-fun for we boat addicts to converse and offer insights to our expertise they also assist newbies to come aboard.

Newbies need us and we need them; otherwise pleasure boating may even further diminish than as has happened over the last couple decades.

Happy Boat-Topic Daze! - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 02:31 AM   #276
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
Part of the optimum scope, is also knowing (seeing) what's in your swinging room. We like anchoring at low tide. It gives you a better sense of what's under you. More than once, after coming in at high tide and then looking around at low tide...yikes! Then you see that rock pinnacle or shallow area that was missed or wasn't on the charts.
Excellent tactic. I need to make sure enough rode is let out to accommodate for the rise of the ride.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 09:27 AM   #277
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
There are a number of users looking at this thread right now I have never seen before.

Welcome and remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 10:05 AM   #278
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
OK.
I admit that I just wanted to say something smart assed.

In a careful reading of this entire thread, there really is no disagreement, but the long answers come because not everyone interprets the question in the same manner.

Thus for the newby, the real issue becomes, not trying to determine the right answer, but in understanding the assumptions inherent in the question and the unstated caveats in the responses.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 10:11 AM   #279
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,789
To those new to anchoring out on a regular basis remember there is no disagreement that every boat bigger than a dinghy should have a rode of both chain and rope. The only question is the length of the chain. Those who favor "all chain" really have 200/300 feet of chain and then 10/15 of rope at the bitter end. Those that favor a chain /rope rode typically have less than 50 feet of chain and then rope.

Then you have those with 200 feet of chain and 400 feet of rope for anchoring in locations more than 100 feet deep.

The decision to be made is affected by your boat and the area in which you anchor.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 11:00 AM   #280
keb
Senior Member
 
keb's Avatar
 
City: Portland, OR
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 129
Ok, so here is a newbie question having never been in an anchor locker ... Why would you have a small amount of line as your bitter end, instead of just securing the all chain rode to the boat? Trying to learn.


Kevin
Portland, OR
__________________

keb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012