AC-14 Type HHP Stockless Anchors
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As always, the places I typically start are the manufacturer.
High holding Power Anchors | Sotra Anchor & Chain
What you've pictured is an AC-14 which is a high-holding anchor and claims to be able to reduce the size/weight by 25%.
High holding Power Anchors | Sotra Anchor & Chain
What you've pictured is an AC-14 which is a high-holding anchor and claims to be able to reduce the size/weight by 25%.
Thank you, so yes I have now written to the company for input.
Independently though, since my boat is being designed and built to ABS, I read through ABS Rules Part 3, did the calculation which yielded:
*Equipment Number EN = 52
*Stockless Anchor (Navy) = 120 kg
*AC-14 has a 25% reduction = 90 kg
If I can get my shipyard to supply one with sharpened flukes then my gut feeling is that a 90 kg (200 lb) unit would be adequate as working/storm.
It seems that lots of TF members have experience with the Forfjord, which is NOT an HHP, but I'm still hoping someone might chime in.
Right now I'm heading in the direction of the stockless as a primary, a large Fortress or Danforth as a storm anchor and then a spade kedge/stern anchor of half weight (maybe 60 lbs).
Independently though, since my boat is being designed and built to ABS, I read through ABS Rules Part 3, did the calculation which yielded:
*Equipment Number EN = 52
*Stockless Anchor (Navy) = 120 kg
*AC-14 has a 25% reduction = 90 kg
If I can get my shipyard to supply one with sharpened flukes then my gut feeling is that a 90 kg (200 lb) unit would be adequate as working/storm.
It seems that lots of TF members have experience with the Forfjord, which is NOT an HHP, but I'm still hoping someone might chime in.
Right now I'm heading in the direction of the stockless as a primary, a large Fortress or Danforth as a storm anchor and then a spade kedge/stern anchor of half weight (maybe 60 lbs).
Capt.Bill11
Guru
Personally I hate the stockless styles of anchors. They always seem to drag unless they are very, very heavy and oversized for the boat. I don't believe they penetrate the bottom very well in many cases.
I would have almost any other type of anchor as my primary one over a stockless.
And I sure as hell wouldn't have one on a 50' boat. Let alone a 200lb one.
I would have almost any other type of anchor as my primary one over a stockless.
And I sure as hell wouldn't have one on a 50' boat. Let alone a 200lb one.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
They are not intended to penetrate in the usual sense of the word. Ever tried to pull a buldozer .. w the blade down? Yes thay are heavy. But if I was to get an anchor that would work well on all bottoms an anchor of this type would be my choice. I have a stockless anchor a 35lb Dreadnought. May be the only one on the forum that does. The most distinguished feature among other stockless anchors is it's very long and heavy shank. I've only used it once. It was in a small quiet bay in The north end of the Broughton Is Group. I dropped it down in about 30' of water .. Probably a mud bottom. I took the slack out of the rode in reverse and still at an idle the rode snapped straight and running up to 1500rpm in reverse nothing changed. Seemed to instantly set. No wind that night and retrieval was normal.
As a storm anchor re holding power I have no idea. I didn't post earlier as my anchor was not the focus of the post but is similar .. except for the long shank. I have put in stops that limit it's throat angle to about 37 degrees. However many of these stockless anchors use a setting of 45 degrees. Perhaps the weight in the center of the shank attach point permit wider throat angles. The Chesapeke Bay anchor test showed what a wide angle can do to increase holding power in very soft bottoms.
As a storm anchor re holding power I have no idea. I didn't post earlier as my anchor was not the focus of the post but is similar .. except for the long shank. I have put in stops that limit it's throat angle to about 37 degrees. However many of these stockless anchors use a setting of 45 degrees. Perhaps the weight in the center of the shank attach point permit wider throat angles. The Chesapeke Bay anchor test showed what a wide angle can do to increase holding power in very soft bottoms.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Here are two pics of the Dreadnought.
1. A fishing boat in Craig Alaska w a good sized Dreadnought. The skipper says it holds in summer 50 knot gales but drags in the 60 knot winter gales.
2. The first Dread I had. 45lbs.
Re Shrew's link the Union anchor is most similar to the Dreadnought. Except for the short shank.
1. A fishing boat in Craig Alaska w a good sized Dreadnought. The skipper says it holds in summer 50 knot gales but drags in the 60 knot winter gales.
2. The first Dread I had. 45lbs.
Re Shrew's link the Union anchor is most similar to the Dreadnought. Except for the short shank.
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Capt.Bill11
Guru
That is a different anchor than the ones under discussion.
Nomad Willy
Guru
You've been paying attention Bill.
Capt.Bill11
Guru
"But if I was to get an anchor that would work well on all bottoms an anchor of this type would be my choice."
I took that to mean you were talking about the anchors type in question. But I'm now guess I misinterpreted it.
And you were really talking about the anchor in your picture?
I took that to mean you were talking about the anchors type in question. But I'm now guess I misinterpreted it.
And you were really talking about the anchor in your picture?
Nomad Willy
Guru
Bill,
No ... the AC-14. The Dreadnought must be a fairly good anchor as quite a number (15 maybe 20) fishing boats have them on their bows. I think over half of them are used as a primary anchor regularly so I'm guessing their performance is fairly good. If I was anchoring on a gale forecast I'd use my usual storm anchor .. not the Dreadnought. There is a older couple w a 50' steel boat in LaConner that goes to Alaska for the summer every year and a fairly rusty Navy anchor (not overly large) rests in his bow. I don't know the limits of these "stockless anchors" and am curious about them.m
No ... the AC-14. The Dreadnought must be a fairly good anchor as quite a number (15 maybe 20) fishing boats have them on their bows. I think over half of them are used as a primary anchor regularly so I'm guessing their performance is fairly good. If I was anchoring on a gale forecast I'd use my usual storm anchor .. not the Dreadnought. There is a older couple w a 50' steel boat in LaConner that goes to Alaska for the summer every year and a fairly rusty Navy anchor (not overly large) rests in his bow. I don't know the limits of these "stockless anchors" and am curious about them.m
Capt.Bill11
Guru
Like I said and FWIW, I've run several big boats with them and I hate them.
I'm just learning about the AC-14 as well, but when you analyze it you realize that it has very good features. Look at the flukes:
Seems to me to be a stockless that is trying to pretend that its parents were CQR and a Danforth
I'm starting to like this baby more and more. Pound for pound it won't compete with a Rocna or Excel, but it's not supposed to - it's a stockless that mostly relies on its weight.
Will do some research to see if there are any holding power tests conducted.
- Sharp points to provide some penetration
- Large area
- Flattish so it is intended to bury to some degree, unlike a Navy which just sits on the surface like a bucket of concrete
- Fluke angle of 35º
- Somewhat of a "plow" shape to the flukes.
Seems to me to be a stockless that is trying to pretend that its parents were CQR and a Danforth
I'm starting to like this baby more and more. Pound for pound it won't compete with a Rocna or Excel, but it's not supposed to - it's a stockless that mostly relies on its weight.Will do some research to see if there are any holding power tests conducted.
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Capt.Bill11
Guru
Yeah, they've got to be great if it takes at least a 200 lb one to hold a 50' boat.
Yeah, they've got to be great if it takes at least a 200 lb one to hold a 50' boat.
I suppose the same would hold true for your super-duper high holding power Excel anchor, which Rex has recommended a 194 lb version.
Hold on, let me insert one of those cute creatures here...
Nomad Willy
Guru
Mako,
That shank looks really fat. I can easily belive little penetration will take place. But I like the flukes. And that mass behiend the flukes is a fair copy of a bulldozer blade. With very little penetration it should push up a huge mass of mud, sand gravel or whatever. I see that as it's ticket to holding power. I'd like to see a longer slimmer shank shaped like a Fortress shank but in steel.
What is the smallest AC-14 available?
Rex is in the bigger is better fraternity. President of the club perhaps.
That shank looks really fat. I can easily belive little penetration will take place. But I like the flukes. And that mass behiend the flukes is a fair copy of a bulldozer blade. With very little penetration it should push up a huge mass of mud, sand gravel or whatever. I see that as it's ticket to holding power. I'd like to see a longer slimmer shank shaped like a Fortress shank but in steel.
What is the smallest AC-14 available?
Rex is in the bigger is better fraternity. President of the club perhaps.
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Capt.Bill11
Guru
I suppose the same would hold true for your super-duper high holding power Excel anchor, which Rex has recommended a 194 lb version.
Hold on, let me insert one of those cute creatures here...
A 194 lb Excel is recommended for a 50' boat!?
Capt Bill, you make me laugh!
Anyway, yes Mr. Many, that shank is fatter than on the smaller models. That anchor is probably about 1/2 ton or more, but if I recall, the smallest model is about 100 lbs.
I suppose we are all opinionated based on our own experiences. I respect that Rex knows his anchor sizing better than anyone, but still I got into a gentle argument with him and personally disagree over his recommended sizing for a typical spade style SHHP anchor. However, weight has serious affect on anchor load when it comes to surge and heave, so maybe he's right??
My ship yard (not a yacht builder) specializes in tugs and are designing my boat to ABS. Therefore they are recommending a stockless as per their experience.
Considering my 50 ft boat is 60 tons, carrying the 200 lbs of weight on the nose is no big deal and in fact I could use the extra weight and reduce ballast a bit. BTW, I'm actually looking into trimming several tons off her lines.
Anyway, yes Mr. Many, that shank is fatter than on the smaller models. That anchor is probably about 1/2 ton or more, but if I recall, the smallest model is about 100 lbs.
I suppose we are all opinionated based on our own experiences. I respect that Rex knows his anchor sizing better than anyone, but still I got into a gentle argument with him and personally disagree over his recommended sizing for a typical spade style SHHP anchor. However, weight has serious affect on anchor load when it comes to surge and heave, so maybe he's right??
My ship yard (not a yacht builder) specializes in tugs and are designing my boat to ABS. Therefore they are recommending a stockless as per their experience.
Considering my 50 ft boat is 60 tons, carrying the 200 lbs of weight on the nose is no big deal and in fact I could use the extra weight and reduce ballast a bit. BTW, I'm actually looking into trimming several tons off her lines.
cappy208
Guru
Curious. Is your design for an anchor table/hawse to have this anchor completely flush with the hull? I ask because this seems to be the commonality for the stock less style like this model. It only takes a rectangular recess, with a heck of a fluke inset. The only issue I have seen is the nasty scrapes when bringing them home when the flukes point in versus out. Can be a real PITA to have to 'flip' the anchor around to get it to stow.
Not a bad idea to have it recess instead of sitting agaist the hull. The entire recess would have to be stainless steel, as well as a protective SS plate below the recess, so when the anchor comes up it does not gouge the paint.
Certainly I don't want this anchor on a bow roller. Will have to think about this.
Hello Hong Kong.
I won't be creating a "pocket" for the anchor to sit in the hawser hole, but honestly I have not decided yet whether to mount flush (to port, not starboard) or just to mount centerline on a bow roller. Both have advantages and disadvantages especially when I start thinking long term and flexibility. I don't have the latest design drawings with me but below are two of my older drafts that I was using to take dimensions off of. I will be installing a 1 meter long leader of 1" stud-link, and I prefer that it not touch the captive reel winch. The drum will be full of nylon rode and 3/8" HT.
I won't be creating a "pocket" for the anchor to sit in the hawser hole, but honestly I have not decided yet whether to mount flush (to port, not starboard) or just to mount centerline on a bow roller. Both have advantages and disadvantages especially when I start thinking long term and flexibility. I don't have the latest design drawings with me but below are two of my older drafts that I was using to take dimensions off of. I will be installing a 1 meter long leader of 1" stud-link, and I prefer that it not touch the captive reel winch. The drum will be full of nylon rode and 3/8" HT.
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If you decide on the side anchor - is there a best angle or best place for the hawse pipe to allow the anchor shank to just drops out of the pipe, or is the location and angle of the pipe based on the shape of the bow and anchor dimensions?
Is there an easy way to use an anchor bridle on the side anchor?
Is there an easy way to use an anchor bridle on the side anchor?
I'm not a designer so I can't answer exactly, but to my logic the hawsehole should be at an angle of about 35 degrees to the hull plating, so they fit snug, and so that the flukes don't bang around in seas. But I will leave the final design details to my naval architect.
I was wondering the same thing about the bridle/snubber line. I seriously doubt it would be practical to use one if all-chain, although if one were preparing for a storm then it could be deployed. The problem is that it would inhibit quick retrieval in case you need to reset the anchor. At this time I'm planning on using a nylon rode however. Am leaning towards the bow roller although it certainly doesn't look as cool
I was wondering the same thing about the bridle/snubber line. I seriously doubt it would be practical to use one if all-chain, although if one were preparing for a storm then it could be deployed. The problem is that it would inhibit quick retrieval in case you need to reset the anchor. At this time I'm planning on using a nylon rode however. Am leaning towards the bow roller although it certainly doesn't look as cool
Xlantic
Guru
When I bought my 1973 Grand banks 50 (28 tons) it came with a ca. 60 kg. Navy anchor mounted on the bow roller. It was quite difficult to raise as the bow roller was not articulated. One had to "help" the anchor on to the pulpit by swinging it with a rope looped around a fluke while bringing the chain in with the windlass.
I believe adding an articulated bow roller would have solved the raising problem and also make the launching more smooth.
But, the bigger problem was the anchor would often drag, even in moderate winds. The first summer, in Croatia, it dragged at least three times. By the end I had no confidence whatsoever in the anchor.
So the following summer I replaced it with a 40 kg. Rocna which sets quickly and solidly and hasn't dragged.
Having said this, with the PO the boat was skippered by a professional who used the Navy anchor for 20 years or so and liked it a lot. In fact when I replaced it I gave it to him to use in a boat he was building.
The flukes on the HHP Stockless anchor do seem a lot more business-like than the ones on my old Navy anchor, sharper and wider, so probably much better at digging and holding.
I believe adding an articulated bow roller would have solved the raising problem and also make the launching more smooth.
But, the bigger problem was the anchor would often drag, even in moderate winds. The first summer, in Croatia, it dragged at least three times. By the end I had no confidence whatsoever in the anchor.
So the following summer I replaced it with a 40 kg. Rocna which sets quickly and solidly and hasn't dragged.
Having said this, with the PO the boat was skippered by a professional who used the Navy anchor for 20 years or so and liked it a lot. In fact when I replaced it I gave it to him to use in a boat he was building.
The flukes on the HHP Stockless anchor do seem a lot more business-like than the ones on my old Navy anchor, sharper and wider, so probably much better at digging and holding.
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Halcyon
Thanks for the feedback on the articulated roller. I will need to look into that further, but I think a lot has to do with the angle that the anchor rests in. For my design it will have a slight down angle so it might not be an issue, but definitely needs looking into.
BTW, there's no doubt that the Rocna is an excellent anchor and that's one reason why I might pursue the roller so that I could always switch anchor types in the future, if desired. However, from what I've experienced with the Navy anchor, it is really inferior and only works as deadweight. The AC-14 that my shipyard is providing actually does a good job of digging in. It's included as base in the price of my build so I'm going to see how it works.
Thanks.
Thanks for the feedback on the articulated roller. I will need to look into that further, but I think a lot has to do with the angle that the anchor rests in. For my design it will have a slight down angle so it might not be an issue, but definitely needs looking into.
BTW, there's no doubt that the Rocna is an excellent anchor and that's one reason why I might pursue the roller so that I could always switch anchor types in the future, if desired. However, from what I've experienced with the Navy anchor, it is really inferior and only works as deadweight. The AC-14 that my shipyard is providing actually does a good job of digging in. It's included as base in the price of my build so I'm going to see how it works.
Thanks.
FF
Guru
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I think a Danforth 90H would pull into the anchor well , and would be totally suitable for your boat.
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Personally, I would still seriously consider the Sarca Excel or even a Super with roll bar.
For your size of boat, and using an articulated roller assembly, as someone else mentioned, you would have a superb all-round performer either way.
The suggested size for your vessel is as follows...
SARCA Excel No 15, L = 27.0 - 29.0, and tonnage = 42 - 57 Ton = 88kg anchor.
Actually your vessel is quite heavy for a 15m or 50' boat, as their recommendations for a 15m vessel is actually only a Excel #7, which is only 36kg, (80lb), because most boats of that length are only about 20-24 tons, so I presume your boat is steel.
The Excel #15 is usually good for a boat about 28m, or ~ 100 feet.
Actually, call me biased, because I have used one for 12 years, but I would go for the Super Sarca # 13....
Super SARCA Anchor No 13, i.e. 74kg or ~ 163lb, for boats 30.0 - 36.0 m = up to 120ft, and weight of 42-60 Tons. Agricultural looking I grant you, but boy they work.
If they can anchor this sucker...boat in pic top right...it'd anchor yours I suspect...
Super SARCA Anchor - anchorright.com.au
Actually, even for a boat of your weight 60ton, the #13 is probably overkill, and the #11 @ 60kg would probably do fine.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Xlantic, Mako,
Here are some pics of anchors that identify the Navy anchor and two others that I've seen a lot of.
Pic #1 and 2 are standard stockless anchors.
Pic #3 is a Navy anchor. Notice the unique fluke shape. I think pic #4 is a Navy also. Looks like the flukes match the Navy profile and notice also the vertical "ears" at the base of the anchor that I think are also a feature on the Navy anchor.
Pics three and four are of my Dreadnought anchor very similar to the Halls ship anchor.
Xlantic I think your old anchor was a Halls.
Here are some pics of anchors that identify the Navy anchor and two others that I've seen a lot of.
Pic #1 and 2 are standard stockless anchors.
Pic #3 is a Navy anchor. Notice the unique fluke shape. I think pic #4 is a Navy also. Looks like the flukes match the Navy profile and notice also the vertical "ears" at the base of the anchor that I think are also a feature on the Navy anchor.
Pics three and four are of my Dreadnought anchor very similar to the Halls ship anchor.
Xlantic I think your old anchor was a Halls.
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Xlantic
Guru
Yes, it does look like a Halls more than a Navy.
Speaking of of old fashioned anchor designs, my boat also came with a Fisherman anchor which i occasionally use in rocky bottoms.
