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Old 09-04-2015, 06:05 PM   #21
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I have a combo rode with 120 ft of chain. In shallow waters, I'm using all chain to anchor and use a Shockles snubber on a nylon line to the cleat to provide elasticity to the rode for shock load reduction and to unload the windlass.

In deeper water, I will deploy 30 or more feet of line rode and secure the line to a cleat on my pulpit to unload my windlass. I'm not worried about my pulpit loads...just don't want the windlass clutch relied upon for anchoring security.

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Old 09-05-2015, 07:03 AM   #22
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"With an anchor snubber it's all about stretch. Longer line equals more."

TRUE , but the snubber line should never be long enough to reach the prop, should it wander overboard while underway.

Simplest is a 3/8 line with a bowline into a chain link.

Remember the bow eye mounting backing plate must be strong enough to take the breaking strength of the snubber line.

A 4 inch hole at the water line would tax even an engine driven 3 inch pump.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:09 AM   #23
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Simplest is a 3/8 line with a bowline into a chain link.
That's OK for holding the anchor into the roller in lieu of a chain stopper, but incorrect for a snubber for a deployed chain anchor rode. The snubber line should be the same size as what you would use for a rope rode for the boat in question. For a long time I used to just take a 3 strand line of the proper size and attach it to the chain with a rolling hitch; it held very well on numerous occasions when the chain was fully tight for sustained periods of time. I eventually acquired my snubber bridle as a gift from a friend who was getting out of big-boat boating.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:32 AM   #24
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Yes I use a snubber. But I've often wondered how many windlasses are damaged by not using one. Is this a red herring topic? The deck mounted drums on the front of most commercial fishing boats are snubber free from my observations. How about the enormous strains imposed on sailing winches?

I anchored for years on the Mississippi with an all rope rode and windlass holding all the current induced strain. Never had an issue. Guess that Trojan woodie was just stouter than our FRP vessels today.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:09 AM   #25
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I had a friend that damaged a bow pulpit when they had to anchor in rough seas due to a failed shaft seal. We used to use a chain hook on a nylon line and tie it to the Sampson post to take the load off the windlass. That setup still put pressure on the bow pulpit through the roller. I put together a snubber harness that connects to the bow cleats and takes all the load off the weaker components.
As a side note our pulpit is reinforced with a 1/4" stainless plate. We have 100 feet 3/8 chain and 100 feet rope.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:35 AM   #26
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That 3 shackle plate is what I've seen used to setup 3 anchor mooring systems. For permanent or storm moorings.

For day to day anchoring it looks a bit overly complicated and unnecessary. Plus you always have those two lines hanging off your bow.

I've also wondered if lowering the point of pull of your anchor rode by only 6' or so significantly changes the holding power of your anchor much over a normal snubber setup. I wonder if anybody has done that in an anchor test?

As always YMMV
In theory, lowering the pull point 6' should allow scope to be shortened by 30'. Worthwhile in a crowded anchorage situation. I too worry about being able to "cut free" easily if needed.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:53 AM   #27
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I like that idea
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:08 AM   #28
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Yes I use a snubber. But I've often wondered how many windlasses are damaged by not using one. Is this a red herring topic? The deck mounted drums on the front of most commercial fishing boats are snubber free from my observations. How about the enormous strains imposed on sailing winches?

I anchored for years on the Mississippi with an all rope rode and windlass holding all the current induced strain. Never had an issue. Guess that Trojan woodie was just stouter than our FRP vessels today.
Yes Tom I agree 100% with you on this.

I have a great snubber. Two point attach, shock absorbers, Mantus chain grab. Built it before I actually anchor'd using out all chain rode, at our normal depth of about 100'

Then I noticed that the chain never even gets tight like my nylon rode did. The chain hangs straight down almost all the time.

That tells me that there is in most instances not enough force on the boat to even lift the chain.

So I don't use the snubber much. I break it out in a storm, but day to day anchoring, the snubber isn't needed.

As far as force on my pulpit, well thats's just another case where the often disparaged Bayliner shines. My pulpit isn't just a pulpit, it's a freaking observation platform. Easily room for two, and stout as can be. It looks like a surfboard bolted to my bow, but it's a great place for a deck chair.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:20 AM   #29
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How about the enormous strains imposed on sailing winches?
Correct, and the force is at 90 degrees to the winch mount, and they do take jerking strains.

I've run aground with a 36' sail (12,000 lb) and ran my anchor out in tender and winched myself off.

As long as mounting bolts held there was never damage to bearing surfaces within.

Having said that, I did take them apart every year and clean/lube them.
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #30
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Re Murray's original post ...

I always use the longest and best snubber of all .. a nylon rode.
And I use only anchors that are good short scope performers.

But in addition to a Kellet one could rig a bow eye (kind of like used on small boats) and attach a quick clip to the anchor line and it to the bow eye. That would lower the angle of the rode and definitely enhance short scope performance. And if one was bent on doing this gett'in into the dinghy would work if no other method of attachment could be found. For safety though a way to release the attachment from the deck above would seem necessary.
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:28 PM   #31
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Yes I use a snubber. But I've often wondered how many windlasses are damaged by not using one. Is this a red herring topic? The deck mounted drums on the front of most commercial fishing boats are snubber free from my observations. How about the enormous strains imposed on sailing winches?

I anchored for years on the Mississippi with an all rope rode and windlass holding all the current induced strain. Never had an issue. Guess that Trojan woodie was just stouter than our FRP vessels today.
Tom, are you looking to get a job on "Myth Busters"?

That old tale about windlasses being destroyed by the pull of the chain has been around forever but, speaking for myself here, I've never actually met someone who suffered that.

BTW, when are you headed back south? 10/29 for us.
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:35 PM   #32
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Is this a red herring topic?

I've thought so for a long time and this thread thus far has done nothing to change my mind.
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:36 PM   #33
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No snubber used here.

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Old 09-05-2015, 01:41 PM   #34
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Tom, are you looking to get a job on "Myth Busters"?

That old tale about windlasses being destroyed by the pull of the chain has been around forever but, speaking for myself here, I've never actually met someone who suffered that.

BTW, when are you headed back south? 10/29 for us.
Well I have, including a couple of severely damaged pulpits. If you are never exposed to severe weather and seas then you won't have the experience. Comparing to a commercial boat that has equipment built to the task and a crew to stand by and run the engines is a nonsequator.

Like many things it is hard for some boaters to understand long-term cause and effect. Windlasses "worn out". Soft decks around the pulpit. Leaks and so on.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:05 PM   #35
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3 point snubber attachment

Who on this forum has worn out a windlass from not using a snubber?

Who has damaged a pulpit because they where not using a snubber?

Soft decks or a paper thin flimsy pulpits are at least valid excuses IMO.
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:35 PM   #36
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Well I have, including a couple of severely damaged pulpits. If you are never exposed to severe weather and seas then you won't have the experience. Comparing to a commercial boat that has equipment built to the task and a crew to stand by and run the engines is a nonsequator.

Like many things it is hard for some boaters to understand long-term cause and effect. Windlasses "worn out". Soft decks around the pulpit. Leaks and so on.
What George said.
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:55 PM   #37
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Craig, it looks so seamanlike to deploy a snubber! After all, it does no harm. So does displaying a dayshape despite it being a legal requirement. Regardless, a snubber reduces stress on the boat.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:07 PM   #38
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Who on this forum has worn out a windlass from not using a snubber?

Who has damaged a pulpit because they where not using a snubber?

Soft decks or a paper thin flimsy pulpits are at least valid excuses IMO.
The issue is people have these problems and don't realize the root cause. The other issue is there obviously aren't many people on this forum with experience anchoring in bad conditions. I suspect the people saying "no problema" also weigh anchor with the windlass, rather than powering the boat forward as part of the process.

Of course there are others that transfer the load to a chain stopper or samson post or cleat, but even then you are putting tremendous strain in bad conditions on those component systems and inducing a very uncomfortable jerking action on the whole boat. Once experienced, folks typically become snubber aficionados pronto.

And again, I will testify I have seen two damaged pulpits. I'll see if I can pull up a picture of one, incurred off the Dry Tortugas, from the archives.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:17 PM   #39
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I suspect the people saying "no problema" also weigh anchor with the windlass, rather than powering the boat forward as part of the process.
Wow, that was quite a leap to get from "use a snubber or not" to "powering the boat forward or not". It's amazing how some get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Oh, and for the record, I'm "not guilty" of using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. Just sayin'.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:25 PM   #40
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Wow, that was quite a leap to get from "use a snubber or not" to "powering the boat forward or not". It's amazing how some get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Oh, and for the record, I'm "not guilty" of using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. Just sayin'.
I said "I suspect" now tell me, why would you want to power forward on the one hand, but disdain a snubber on the other?

Oh, here's one of the pics:

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