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06-23-2018, 05:39 AM
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#21
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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"That's a big difference with electric having only about 1/3 the lifting capacity."
The real concern is the overload condition , an electric unit may let all the white smoke our, the hyd will simply stop till you increase the hyd pressure , or relieve the load.
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06-23-2018, 11:06 AM
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#22
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
As you are looking at winch capacity to lift your anchor and chain, keep in mind that some winches have different capacity ratings for hydraulics vs electric. A Maxwell 3500, for example, can lift 3500 lbs in it's hydraulic configuration, but only 1200 lbs in it's electric configuration. That's a big difference with electric having only about 1/3 the lifting capacity.
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TT, I don't think that is right. I believe they lift the same.
Vertical Capstan Range
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06-25-2018, 01:14 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
City: Grenadines
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurc
Looks like timelines dictate my decision, the lead time on 1/2 is 2 weeks, on 5/8 it’s months. I’ll be going with 1/2 HT, about 400ft paired with the 55kg Rocna.
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You might want to check that your chain locker will actually take that much chain. When we switched from 300' of 3/8" to 200' of ½" chain we had just enough room in the locker if we kept the chain from piling up.
I don't see why you want to spend the extra money on HT chain, it still isn't strong enough to hold the boat if it comes tight from the anchor to the boat, yet it is lighter than BBB, which is the standard anchor chain, making it less efficient. The gypsy for ½" BBB may be cheaper too, as it is a more common size.
Our 44-kilo Rocna (77,000# boat) rarely takes more than it's own length to set (we dove on it for about a year when we first got it) and live on the pick in various anchorages 24/7/365, in the West Indies. We rarely use more than 3:1 scope unless we expect severe weather such as a gale or tropical storm, and have never once dragged.
__________________
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
-Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame
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06-25-2018, 01:59 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Sea Bear
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 752
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I should be fine on chain storage, I’m 1/2 full with 400ft of 3/8 bbb.
On the bbb versus HT the HT wildcat was available, the bbb was not so hence an easy decision
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06-25-2018, 02:51 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
City: Grenadines
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurc
I should be fine on chain storage, I’m 1/2 full with 400ft of 3/8 bbb.
On the bbb versus HT the HT wildcat was available, the bbb was not so hence an easy decision
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Yep, that I understand. A gypsy for our windlass is over a grand!
As for the locker size, we were also about ½ full w/ 3/8, and I never gave it a thought. Turned out the ½" was almost 3 times larger. Just saying.
__________________
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
-Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame
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06-25-2018, 03:00 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Sea Bear
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 752
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Oh wow, not expecting that... guess I may be breaking out the hacksaw...
I do have two lockers so I could merge them to create one and put the backup chain on the bottom.
__________________
Kadey-Krogen 54
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06-25-2018, 03:02 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,984
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No, no, do not rip an anchor out of the bottom with engine power while the chain is only connected to the windlass. Use a short over-sized snubber to take the strain.
I had to have the shaft of my anchor windlass straightened after I bought the boat because of the previous owner's poor seamanship.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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06-25-2018, 03:26 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Sea Bear
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 752
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I dont think you should ever plan on using your windlass to support load of the boat, in my case Ideal makes a nice chain stopper fitting that is super beefy and I lock the chain in there before powering over it at all.
AC
__________________
Kadey-Krogen 54
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06-25-2018, 11:16 PM
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#29
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Dauntless Award
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurc
I don’t think they are worried about the actual weight of the anchor, anchor size is a way of inferring holding power and what would be required to rip the anchor out when set. When I asked about larger anchors they simply said I’d likely need to break the anchor free by running over it more often if it was too large.
The stress on the Windlass by an extra couple hundred pounds is small versus trying to pull the anchor out of a deep mud set or pulling up anchor in windy conditions without staying right over top of it.
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I wouldn't use the windless to free a buried anchor. At some point, you'll end up pulling it up by hand.
I like your idea of the 44 kg anchor, but in deep anchorages the 3/8 BBB would work well.
My 25kg Delta has never dragged yet.
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06-25-2018, 11:47 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Sea Bear
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 752
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Agreed, even rated for 5/8 chain my Windlass shows/slows when it’s starting to pull up on the anchor if it’s really dug in (anything but a lunch stop). It’s easy to just lock the chain, bump her forward and then start lifting again.
I have put extra stress on it when trying to up anchor in very windy conditions. Not sure if anyone has any tricks for that (my only Windlass controls are up front)
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06-26-2018, 08:35 AM
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#31
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Grand Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurc
Agreed, even rated for 5/8 chain my Windlass shows/slows when it’s starting to pull up on the anchor if it’s really dug in (anything but a lunch stop). It’s easy to just lock the chain, bump her forward and then start lifting again.
I have put extra stress on it when trying to up anchor in very windy conditions. Not sure if anyone has any tricks for that (my only Windlass controls are up front)
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Good hand signals to the admiral while she uses thrusters or the engine to position the boat where you want it over the anchor.
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06-26-2018, 09:24 AM
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#32
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,162
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For the Kady Krogen 54, I have the following specs:
Length Overall:54'5"
Weight:67,800#
The Rocna sizing guide puts you at a 7/16 G40 chain. Rocna oversizes their recommendations automatically and is geared toward cruisers. I trust their recommendations.
Sizing Guide | Rocna Anchors // Rock Solid
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06-26-2018, 09:42 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin
Good hand signals to the admiral while she uses thrusters or the engine to position the boat where you want it over the anchor.
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+1
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06-26-2018, 10:36 AM
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#34
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Sea Bear
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 752
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Sounds like I’ll be doing some hand signal practice this summer
__________________
Kadey-Krogen 54
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06-26-2018, 05:31 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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Of course is my first consideration was how much loading force my boat can withstand. I have 5/16 g4 for my anchor and that has a working load rating of 3900#. I doubt the cleats will withstand that force. Heck, the bolts holding my Silverton's cleats will be in both tension and shear, I can just visualize one being ripped off the deck before the 5/16 chain breaks. A steel hull is another matter with larger cleats and mounting bolts
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