Your choice of new electronic suites

[healhustler]

Eric.....you certainly are a functional-minded guy. *Your helm looks great,...serious equipment built for serious cruiser, but I can't quite make out what that is in the center (red arrow) with the cover over it. *BTW, what's missing from under your helm wheel (other arrow). *

*

-- Edited by healhustler on Monday 12th of September 2011 11:59:50 AM

 

[Nomad Willy]

husler,

I'm flattered that you have noticed such details about my boat without telling me to make my bed. The thing ahead of the compass is the radar indicator. The hole under the helm is where it was before I raised it the obvious amount. There's other things strange about the helm station for you to comment about if you wish. And I'm not talking about the wood under the seat. Gets me up where I can see where I'm going. Most boats fall short on this score. Notice the sounder with big enough digits to see at a very quick glance while you keep your eyes on "the road".

 

[Codger2]

nomadwilly wrote:The thing ahead of the compass is the radar indicator. The hole under the helm is where it was before I raised it the obvious amount.

* * * * ( Still laughing) Eric: Do you realize how much fun I could have with that statement?

********* Please don't ask me "why" as I refuse to make my quip. (Still laughing!)

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sure glad you're halving such a good time laughing but I don't know what on earth your'e laughing about. This is like being sober when everyone else is high. And OK I won't ask why.

 

[Codger2]

nomadwilly wrote:
Sure glad you're halving such a good time laughing but I don't know what on earth your'e laughing about.

I sincerely apologize, Eric. I am not, however, going to explain what my first thoughts were when I read your post. Again, my apologies. I was rude, impudent & clearly out of line.

 

[skipperdude]

I sure like the Garmin 4200 series I have the 4208 it comes with the hook up for two cameras I now have a backup reverse image camera and one in the engineroom.

I opted out of the touch screen because I love to fish and don't always have time to wash my hands before touching the screen. I just couldn't imagine fish scales all over the screen.

The stuff is plug and play. Hook up is a breeze.

I like it.

SD

 

[Edelweiss]

Me too!! *I have the 4212 and love it, but no touch screen. * We have touch screen everything at work and from experience know that dirty fingers make a mess of the screen. *Even hand lotion or anything you touch,*I also fish and crab,*ends up on the screen. *

For the "white glove" skipper it would be ok, but for me it would be like wearing a tux to the beer garden at a football game.

 

[Nomad Willy]

What's the purpose of the touch screen? Must make it easier to navigate somehow. It looks to be just a new thing to get popular (new things are instantly popular in our culture) and sell more gadgets. In the workplace touch screen would be a great disease transmitter. Don't even need to cough on people anymore** ....just work. I assume in this day and age you must use computers to work.

 

[healhustler]

I wondered about this too, Eric. *But when I witnessed the ease by which my Admiral began to work with her I-Pad, and then later, her I-Phone, I saw for myself that she was learning more easily, and actually enjoyed (instead of dreaded) her relationship with these devices. *I view touch screens as just another feature that can go wrong, but for her, they are a way she can integrate with a machine. *Each time she sees it respond to her, it motivates her. *When she pushes keys or buttons, it's often the wrong one, she doesn't see response or perhaps a response she doesn't want, and she doesn't know what to do next to change the effect. *She looses patience and pushes other buttons, and quickly gets lost.

**It seems as long as she gets response on a touch screen, she feels in control. *If she makes the wrong selection, somehow she garners the patience to undo it and start over. *Frankly, I'm delighted about this, cuz now she's more excited about a new electronics suite than I am. *If she wants to spend the extra bucks so she can touch the screen, I won't argue. *I just say "yes dear, if you insist".

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thank's hustler,

Yea......everybody just seems to like them. Perhaps we're a little closer to electronic sex. I've got an i-pad but havn't used it yet. I'm maybe a little motavated now.

 

[Codger2]

nomadwilly wrote:*I've got an i-pad but havn't used it yet. I'm maybe a little motavated now.

******** Eric:*

My wife has one and I love it!* I wasn't nuts about the touch screen either but after a very few sessions with the thing I've come to appreciate it. Remember, "The future belongs to those who manage change the best ."

Your Friend,

Walt :wink:

 

[Nomad Willy]

Well thanks Walt**

and for being my friend

I've considered us friends for about 4 years

Good friends disagree at times

or even frequently

and get over it

 

[healhustler]

Can you imagine how ridiculous such discussions must sound to the watermen who never had electronics the way we know them today. "Oh dear.....I'm not sure of what I want...Should I push a button, or touch a screen?"

 

[Codger2]

nomadwilly wrote:
I've considered us friends for about 4 years

Good friends disagree at times

*Eric:

We do have to tone it down though as I have receved some PMs that think we hate each other's guts. I respect your position and posts although I don't agree with some of them. As Americans, that is our right to speak out as long as we're not physically attacking one another.

You're right! It will be 4 years next month. :jawdrop:

 

[Nomad Willy]

OK Walt,

I must be the sweet one then as I've received no such PMs. The last four's been good lets do another. I still don't see how your boat runs so level w/o trim tabs. Re Zippers comment about spelling I remember you making a similar comment about mine when I did'nt know about the spell checker. I felt like i'd been smacked in the face and I got a friend (younger) to show me how to do the spell checker. Did me a favor actually so if there's anyone that dosn't know about the spell checker PM me and wi'll go to school. Imagine me giving computer lesions HA* HA* HA. That's funny. I knew so little 4 years ago Walt I wonder how I found TF. I see many here don't know how to insert a link. Made me feel like a computer guru when I figured out how to do that. I only had 3 mispellings on this post.

 

[Moonstruck]

The world has surely changed when a bunch of old farts are talking geekspeak.

-- Edited by Moonstruck on Saturday 17th of September 2011 05:34:40 PM

 

[Tom.B]

nomadwilly wrote:Perhaps we're a little closer to electronic sex.

Joe's Garage?

(Abstract reference of the day.)

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:
What's the purpose of the touch screen?

*Eric---

We've been using touch screens here (Boeing) for the last decade or so, starting with the very first ones.* A good touch screen is terrific.* Very intuitive, very fast, no wires, no mouse or trackball moving parts to gum up, and worlds better than the "touchpad" that's on most laptops these days, which I think is the stupidest thing ever invented by man.* Or at least the most annoying.

A touch screen elminates hunting around on a control panel for physical knobs and switches.* But there are touch screens and there are touch screens.* A big factor in how user friendly they are is in the design of the applications that run on them.* A poorly designed touchscreen application can be as frustrating as an old mouse-driven or touchpad-based*application.

So far in my experience and observation Apple has the best touch screen applications going.* However my wife has a Blackberry Storm II, Blackberry's sort-of answer to the iPhone and it is very nice although the screen is not as large as the iPhone's.

Boeing is rapidly migrating to iPad 2s for all sorts of tasks, from giving presentations at airshows to our flight test pilots' use of them to replace virtually all the paperwork on the flight deck including approach and departure*plates, aircraft operations and emergency procedures manuals and checklists, airport maps, you name it.* Airline maintenence departments are starting to use iPads on the planes that connect wirelessly to the maintenance and repair manuals stored on their central computers.* So instead of a big manual or even a laptop the mechanics go on board with just a thin, lightweight iPad but they have access to all the information they need to fix the plane.

This is only possible with a touch screen as finding a place to place and use a mouse or trackball in this kind of environment is almost impossible, and built-in cursor control devices--- trackballs, touchpads, joysticks, etc--- add weight and complexity and force a tablet to be more bulky.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks Marin,

I've got an i-pad but really haven't used it. Most of the things I've learned with it were by accident. Later this winter. Soon I'm going out to Etolin Island where that Sea Ranger sank a month or two ago. I know exactly where he was now.

 

[Marin]

Eric--- I don't know how much you read books but since you have an iPad you should know (if you don't already) that you can load both Amazon's Kindle software and Barne's & Noble's Nook software on it. Which means you can use the iPad as an e-reader. I don't know what the cost structure is for the iPad. My wife and I have WiFi/3G Kindles and the 3G access to Amazon's bookstore server is free, even in China, the UK, and Norway to name three places outside the US*I've downloaded books. You pay for the book, of course, but the cost is far less than the price of the print version of the same book. I used to pooh-pooh e-readers but now that I have one I don't want to read a book in print again. This does not apply to books heavy with photos or coffee-table type books, but for reading basic fiction and non-fiction books, the e-reader has only advantages and no disadvatages in my opinion.

So that's a major benefit you have with your iPad.

There are marine nav applications available for the iPad but I don't know anything about them.

One thing you can use your iPad for on your boat--- if you have connectivity--- is as a wannabe AIS if you have any interest in that technology. As others have mentioned on this forum, if you go to http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ you can zoom in on a map of your immediate area and see all the vessels in real time that are transmitting AIS signals. YOU won't be transmitting one, of course, but you can see where the AIS-equipped traffic around you is. You have to mentally superimpose your positon on the map of course, but it can serve as a sort of poor-man's AIS.

The connectivity may be crap or nonexistant in your area--- you'd need a 3G or 4G version of the iPad to really make this work as WiFi connectivity is going to be zilch out in the middle of the channel--- but for people in waters with good 3G/4G coverage it could come in handy. Up in your neck of the woods I suspect AIS isn't all that valuable for our kind of boating, but in more crowded waters, particularly those with a lot of heavyweight commercial traffic, it could be a benefit. We so far have not seen the value in it for our own boating, but I don't deny it could be very useful under certain circumstances.

An iPad, like all this stuff, is one of those things that the more you use it the more useful it becomes. For example you could keep your engine, maintenance, and trip logs on it if you're inclined to keep these kinds of logs to begin with.

The "keyboard" on the iPad is next to worthless, but if you want to use an iPad to write stuff there are both dockable and Bluetooth full-size keyboards available. This is what I intend to do when we spring for an iPad 3 next year or whenever they come out.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 28th of September 2011 11:17:01 PM

 

[brian eiland]

Coastal Explorer

I'm not up to date on any of this new electronic navigation hardware/electronics,.....but on another forum I saw this posted

why take paper charts

Here's what I do: I use Coastal Explorer displayed on a 19' Tru Vu sunlight readable monitor that gives a large, bright and easily readable presentation. I split the screen showing the larger overview of the entire route on the left where one can easily see the vessel position relative to the overall surroundings and progress along the course On the right half I display the vessel position on a zoomed-in view so that I can easily see hazards and other features around me.

I like the fact that each time I turn on Coastal Explorer, it automatically checks all my installed charts for updates and applies any corrections available. I used to position a paper chart alongside the display but haven't bothered to do that for years now. Coastal Explorer maintains a track recording log and also logs any events I enter.

Should the GPS input fail, an unlikely event as there are four different GPS signals fed into CE and CE automatically selects an operable GPS, then CE would automatically change over to a create dead reckoning plot.

And I do keep a back-up laptop charged and stored in an aluminum briefcase with Coastal Explorer loaded and a GPS hockey puck attached for emergencies; although in all the years I've never needed to use it.

Just have to remember to keep it charged and updated.

As mentioned, this is not the only answer, but it works just fine for me,

Tom Collins, Misty Sea

 

[Scottlb]

I'll add a second for Garmin. When we bought our boat three years ago, it had very little and very old electronics. Being an electronics junkie, this was just the excuse I needed. Having previous good experience with Garmin, settled on the 4210. I too did not want touch screens, but can see the value of a more intuitive interface. The 5000 series I believe is the equivalent touch version of the 4000 series. I have two 4210s, one up and one down, networked with a GSD 22 and the HD radar, with Sirius XM weather. Only problem I had was the 4210's freezing up after 3 hours or so after I first installed them, and that was quickly remedied by a software update about a week later. Also tied in my SH VHF with an AIS receiver, so I can see the AIS targets on my plotters. Your $5K budget will be a bit short, particularly if you go with the touch screens, as they are about $1K more than the non-touch version.

My advice, go to the candy store and see which unit(s) best fit your requirements & tastes, as most of the name brands will certainly do the job.

 

[AKDoug]

I installed a new Simrad NSE12 multi-function display, purchase online as a "NavPack" with G3 Broadband radar and the GPS antenna. I added the autopilot components piece by piece since the NSE-12 MFD acts as the control head for the autopilot. I also added the BSM-1 Broadband sonar module and transducer, thought about the AIS but was running cash short. It came will ALL of the parts I needed to make it work, and I was able to do ALL of the work myself without difficulty. It is plug and play, and the SimNet could see every component in the system when energized. My only glitch requiring a technical support phone call (one) was a box in a menu not being checked to enable the autopilot on. Once checked, the MFD found the autopilot and ran the setup menu, and it was all gravy! I ran it all the way from Anacortes Washington to Whittier Alaska with no glitches or equipment issues. I am pleased with my choice.

 

[AKDoug]

Touch screen displays have no place on a small vessel used in open water in my opinion, there is simply too much movement for fine adjustments. I appreciate that my MFD is NOT a touch screen, there is a lot of motion in a 30' boat and I love the open water.

 

[Codger2]

I ran it all the way from Anacortes Washington to Whittier Alaska with no glitches or equipment issues. I am pleased with my choice.

You should be! If I was in the market for all new electronics, the SimRad line would be at the top of my list. I'll admit that Garmin gets the lion share of the write ups but if you really have an opportunity to play with both MFDs, Including Furuno, (Go to West Marine) I think you'll find that the Simrad line is more user friendly.

 

[timjet]

I have both a Raymarine and Garmin touchscreen chartplotter. The Raymarine is the E-90W series and the Garmin is the 740 series. Both have been updated and are 3 year old equipment.

I am not happy with the Raymarine chartplotter. It is too dim and for me it's difficult to see the route line. It has a 50 waypoint limitation when creating routes and the PC software Raymarine uses to synch with the chartplotter is amateurish. I create and use routes everywhere I go so this feature is important to me.

Garmin on the other hand beats Raymarine hands down on all these issues. My wife won't even look at the Raymarine unit when navigating. So we now use the Raymarine display for radar and video only. The radar on the Rarmarine unit though is pretty good.

 

[AKDoug]

I am not overly impressed with my Broadband radar. Party of that would probably be that I was a radar operator in the US Navy, so their radar is pretty good. The G3 is good inside of a couple of miles, but doesn't even see headlands much further away than that. I have it for finding a place to sleep after dark or in bad weather, and to see large ships coming up from behind me when crossing shipping channels. On the other hand, the G3 will also see small ice bergs and buoys on flat water if you crank up the gain high enough. The Broadband sonar is awesome!

 

[Pau Hana]

I am not overly impressed with my Broadband radar. Party of that would probably be that I was a radar operator in the US Navy, so their radar is pretty good. The G3 is good inside of a couple of miles, but doesn't even see headlands much further away than that. I have it for finding a place to sleep after dark or in bad weather, and to see large ships coming up from behind me when crossing shipping channels. On the other hand, the G3 will also see small ice bergs and buoys on flat water if you crank up the gain high enough. The Broadband sonar is awesome!

Interesting- I was an Operations Specialist in the Navy, and came to the same conclusion re broadband vd pulse radar. We opted for the Raymarine e-series on our boat with the 4KW open array radar, and have no regrets.

Tim, I find that the latest generations Raymarine products are easy to use, and very powerful. I especially like the Hybrid Touch setup- a combination of touch screen and traditional buttonology.

 

[AKDoug]

That's what I did, OS. Here in Southcentral Alaska the requirement for radar is extremely low, and I never considered having it on a planing hull. At 5.5 knots cruise it extends my cruising day in the fall, a spotlight being a poor substitute for arriving in daylight. I used it extensively for navigation coming up through Canada, where my digital charts were inadequate by "going to cursor" from headland to headland on the Inside Passage. I made the mistake of thinking the embedded charts in the unit would get me to where the chip started covering Alaska. Embed was great in the US, and then went right in the toilet when I hit Canada. I honestly don't want that much power in the air (your unit) and almost never even turn it on, which is the common case here.

 

[Conrad]

I installed a new Simrad NSE12 multi-function display, purchase online as a "NavPack" with G3 Broadband radar and the GPS antenna. I added the autopilot components piece by piece since the NSE-12 MFD acts as the control head for the autopilot. I also added the BSM-1 Broadband sonar module and transducer, thought about the AIS but was running cash short. It came will ALL of the parts I needed to make it work, and I was able to do ALL of the work myself without difficulty. It is plug and play, and the SimNet could see every component in the system when energized. My only glitch requiring a technical support phone call (one) was a box in a menu not being checked to enable the autopilot on. Once checked, the MFD found the autopilot and ran the setup menu, and it was all gravy! I ran it all the way from Anacortes Washington to Whittier Alaska with no glitches or equipment issues. I am pleased with my choice.

We also installed a Simrad NSE12 on our boat this spring. Included in the install was an AP28 autopilot and Structurescan. Holding off on the broadband radar for a bit as we have an old Furuno radar but will eventually go with perhaps a 4G or newer when the time comes.

After a disastrous foray with Furuno two years ago on our previous boat, the Simrad is amazing. The chart colours are vibrant, the menus are intuitive, the course tracking does not show us having traversed various land masses, and the screen is rock steady.

The Structurescan has to be seen to be believed. Amazing detail of the bottom down to about 120'. One does have to keep in mind that the Structurescan is only good down to about 150' so a separate depthsounder would be needed if you wish to see more depth.

I'm very happy with the Simrad.