There is more to wire than just the size. What does the marking on the wire actually say? Is it SO, SOO, XHHW, RHH, RHW-2, USE-2, etc. If it is welding lead, what Class? Some of the welding cable is rated for secondary power supply applications not exceeding 600v AC.
Wire size confusion
- Thread starter Sea Word
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Old sarge
I and I doubt others, would argue that in emergency / stranded situations you do what ever it takes to get running / home. Believe me I have MacGyvered systems many times... when needed. I wouldn't hesitate to use wire nuts if that's all I had, or jumper a fuse to get home if necessary. BUT I would then repair / replace the temp w a correct permanent fix.
I don't know anything about radar and don't doubt your experience but wonder is the USAF standard soldered connections for all aircraft systems?
If not mistaken even on boats where solder is frowned on it is recommended for VHF antenna connections. Thats a very special situation and I would not extrapolate it to mean that's a best practice for all systems.
I also wonder what the USN or USCG standard is for ships?
You mentioned pre tinning leads... that may or may not be a good substitute if you arent using tinned wire and quality tinned crimps as recommended!
I myself have wired boat battys using welding cable and soldered connection w/o failure but I would never recommend either as a best practice for marine use.
My feeling is there's a reason they call it "welding cable" and not "marine batty cable".
No question at all... it may last a long time or for as long as I own the boat.
In this case I'm with Comodave!
My leaning is to try to learn the best practices or standards and apply them when & where possible.
I frequently refer folks to CMS Marine How To website and articles as I believe RC is trying to educate us on both counts... STDs/ best practices and how to do it correctly.
There are times I think it would be interesting to write a book on the many times / ways I've MacGyvered something to "get by" in a pinch
I and I doubt others, would argue that in emergency / stranded situations you do what ever it takes to get running / home. Believe me I have MacGyvered systems many times... when needed. I wouldn't hesitate to use wire nuts if that's all I had, or jumper a fuse to get home if necessary. BUT I would then repair / replace the temp w a correct permanent fix.
I don't know anything about radar and don't doubt your experience but wonder is the USAF standard soldered connections for all aircraft systems?
If not mistaken even on boats where solder is frowned on it is recommended for VHF antenna connections. Thats a very special situation and I would not extrapolate it to mean that's a best practice for all systems.
I also wonder what the USN or USCG standard is for ships?
You mentioned pre tinning leads... that may or may not be a good substitute if you arent using tinned wire and quality tinned crimps as recommended!
I myself have wired boat battys using welding cable and soldered connection w/o failure but I would never recommend either as a best practice for marine use.
My feeling is there's a reason they call it "welding cable" and not "marine batty cable".
No question at all... it may last a long time or for as long as I own the boat.
In this case I'm with Comodave!
My leaning is to try to learn the best practices or standards and apply them when & where possible.
I frequently refer folks to CMS Marine How To website and articles as I believe RC is trying to educate us on both counts... STDs/ best practices and how to do it correctly.
There are times I think it would be interesting to write a book on the many times / ways I've MacGyvered something to "get by" in a pinch
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psneeld
Guru
My usual response is not to suggest using less than best practice is the only way to go, only to point out that best practice is not necessarily the ONLY safe or practicable way in rigging a boat.
Even ABYC aknowledges this with the caveat that with older boats it may not be practicable to follow the suggestion to the letter.
It ranks up there with every owner should be a professional captain with 40 years of experience before becoming the operator of vessels bigger than a rowboat. Best practice, and liked by insurance companies, but not practicable.
PS.....you wouldn't believe how poorly some of the USCG helos were wired when I flew them. No way they would pass ABYC.
Even ABYC aknowledges this with the caveat that with older boats it may not be practicable to follow the suggestion to the letter.
It ranks up there with every owner should be a professional captain with 40 years of experience before becoming the operator of vessels bigger than a rowboat. Best practice, and liked by insurance companies, but not practicable.
PS.....you wouldn't believe how poorly some of the USCG helos were wired when I flew them. No way they would pass ABYC.
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exmaggiedrum
Veteran Member
As a retired tech I have seen a lot of different types of cables and have replaced a lot of welding cable. I have seen welding cable where the insulation was completely chafed through, many times in out of the way places you can't easily see. I am not an expert on welding cable types but I do know some of it has better insulation. IMHO that is a critical factor.
The only good thing about welding cable is the price (sometimes) and the flexibility. It is a bad idea to use it on a boat, especially salt water boats. The fine threads will corrode in a heartbeat if the crimp and heatshrink are not perfectly sealed.
If you have cables made, especially short ones, make sure you get the orientation of the crimps right so they will fit on the termination without having to force them. I used to mark the ends of the old ones on the insulation to show right side up and when I made new ones I would do the same at the place where I would take the insulation off so it would show after stripping the insulation. Not fun to throw away an expensive piece of cable with crimps and heatshrink. Been there done that. This is especially important if you have cables made.
Having said all this my current boat has some welding cable on it that I have not replaced because of the difficulty of doing that. I replaced most all other cables, including 2/0 - with marine rated 105 degree rated tinned cable, especially in the engine room.
I don't want to hijack the thread about this since there are hundreds of posts about it, and, the people who like soldering don't like to hear it, but soldering is not a good practice, especially big cables. If you do, make sure you securely attach the cable as close as possible to each termination so it absolutely cannot (not probably not) vibrate and break. This is a major safety issue as a big cable and a lot of current can start a fire when the connection can no longer take all the current with a crack in the wire. But to each his own.
The only good thing about welding cable is the price (sometimes) and the flexibility. It is a bad idea to use it on a boat, especially salt water boats. The fine threads will corrode in a heartbeat if the crimp and heatshrink are not perfectly sealed.
If you have cables made, especially short ones, make sure you get the orientation of the crimps right so they will fit on the termination without having to force them. I used to mark the ends of the old ones on the insulation to show right side up and when I made new ones I would do the same at the place where I would take the insulation off so it would show after stripping the insulation. Not fun to throw away an expensive piece of cable with crimps and heatshrink. Been there done that. This is especially important if you have cables made.
Having said all this my current boat has some welding cable on it that I have not replaced because of the difficulty of doing that. I replaced most all other cables, including 2/0 - with marine rated 105 degree rated tinned cable, especially in the engine room.
I don't want to hijack the thread about this since there are hundreds of posts about it, and, the people who like soldering don't like to hear it, but soldering is not a good practice, especially big cables. If you do, make sure you securely attach the cable as close as possible to each termination so it absolutely cannot (not probably not) vibrate and break. This is a major safety issue as a big cable and a lot of current can start a fire when the connection can no longer take all the current with a crack in the wire. But to each his own.
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Comodave
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Agree when making heavy battery cables that connector orientation is critical. I make my own battery cables onsite and fit the cable in place and loose assemble the connectors and the use a Sharpie to mark the cable and connector so that I get them right. Especially with short jumper cables if the connector isn’t oriented correctly, it won’t fit. The cable and connectors are too expensive to have to make them twice.
psneeld
Guru
From Trojan Battery white paper on battery cables. It is a PDF that you get by googling Trojan battery soldered lugs.
"It is therefore highly recommended that connectors not only be mechanically crimped but also soldered to the cable’s end. A properly crimped and soldered connector will provide a lower resistance connection and reduce the amount of heat buildup at the connecting junction."
"It is therefore highly recommended that connectors not only be mechanically crimped but also soldered to the cable’s end. A properly crimped and soldered connector will provide a lower resistance connection and reduce the amount of heat buildup at the connecting junction."
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Sea Word
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YukonRon
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Good point about getting the orientation of the cables right. When we got our boat, the filler caps on all 5 batteries were blocked by the cables such that all the cables needed to be removed from the terminals to check and top up the batteries. What a pain. I've rerouted the cables and now it's a quick and simple job to pop the caps and check and top up on a regular basis. Maintenance that's made easier is maintenance that gets done regularly.
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