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Old 01-04-2014, 07:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottA View Post
Hi All,

I had a bit of time to investigate this further and made the following discoveries;
With start battery and ignition on and house battery off, windlass will not work.
With start battery off and house battery on, windlass will not work.
The windlass needs both start battery and house battery to operate, does this mean the windlass is indeed on the house battery and isolated though the ignition switch?
I am also looking at the deep cycle batteries for the house and now possibly windlass operation, possibly 2x 6volt trojan
The only issue is that they are unsealed and they are are mounted close to living areas etc, and they will extend above the top of the battery box so no protection will be given to spillage and gassing and I will not be able to use the top of the battery box.
There are gel type ones the same size, but these are expensive and I have read that that these need to be charged at a lower rate than the wet/wet sealed ?- When my engine is running the Volvo info panel shows 14.1 to 14.2 volts which I assume is in line with wet type batteries, the Gel type require abt 13.8 volts?
Do these type of batteries come in wet sealed type?

Thanks and Regards Scott
Scott, you are looking at two issues here, one the wiring to the winch and how the drain from that is affecting other instruments, and the other, the best type of batt for the purpose.

When my original 2 deep cycle wet cell batts finally died - (had hardly done badly - about 10 yrs out of each), I replaced them with 2 dedicated AGM paralleled for the house (we are 12v (lights mostly LED) only when out, so no major drains), and I put in a separate heavy duty maintenance-free truck sized starter batt, which is not deep cycle, but tolerates high rates of discharge and charge well. The anchor winch and starter motor both draw from this, thus keeping the short but heavy drain these require coming from the type of batt that 'likes' that kind of use, saving the house batts for what they do best, but also isolating them electrically so as to avoid your issue.. The house bats need to be deep cycle, so they can be taken down to lower levels without harm, although best never beyond 50% discharged. AGMs can tolerate high rates of charge - not sure about gel types, but that is another good reason for separating the start and house types, as they do have differing charge requirements.

To avoid the heavy drain effect on your sonar, you clearly need to isolate the sources of current, and I suggest you make sure the heavy duty leads to the winch from the battery go straight from the start batt terminals to the anchor solenoid junction box, and go nowhere near a connection with the house bank - preferably bypassing the ignition switch as well. Ideally I think only the low current lead to the starter motor solenoid should go through the ignition, as although one normally will have the engine running when using the anchor winch, it is quite advantageous to be able to activate the winch without the ignition being on for minor adjustments like snubber fitting/removal etc, although if you do have the anchor winch switch going through the ignition to the solenoids, as long as the actual high current leads come directly off the separate starter (as opposed to house) battery, you should be saved the nuisance of the sonar brown-out.

Hope that helps..?
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:55 PM   #22
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Scott, my recent replacement"150ah" (nominal) genset start battery 1150CCA, sealed/wet/calcium came from Super Start Batteries at Lansvale at $275. They have a wide range of battery types, seem to know what they were talking about. Worth a call, but your problem does not sound like battery.
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Old 01-05-2014, 02:49 AM   #23
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Certainly the problem is nlt the bateries but the wiring
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:53 PM   #24
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I had a bit of time to investigate this further and made the following discoveries;
With start battery and ignition on and house battery off, windlass will not work.
With start battery off and house battery on, windlass will not work.
The windlass needs both start battery and house battery to operate, does this mean the windlass is indeed on the house battery and isolated though the ignition switch?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You could very well have the control wiring on one battery and the power wiring on the other battery meaning unless BOTH battery sets are turned on the winch will not work. The winch deck switch likely does not control the heavy power directly but rather the switch controls a heavy duty relay.

You are going to have to trace this out. Both sides, the control and the power. Then move the control wiring source to the starting battery as I'll bet that is the situation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am also looking at the deep cycle batteries for the house and now possibly windlass operation, possibly 2x 6volt trojan
The only issue is that they are unsealed and they are are mounted close to living areas etc, and they will extend above the top of the battery box so no protection will be given to spillage and gassing and I will not be able to use the top of the battery box.
There are gel type ones the same size, but these are expensive and I have read that that these need to be charged at a lower rate than the wet/wet sealed ?- When my engine is running the Volvo info panel shows 14.1 to 14.2 volts which I assume is in line with wet type batteries, the Gel type require abt 13.8 volts?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Gels will not work well unless you also want to change the alternator controller to a 3 stage type that has specific provision for GELS. Same for the shore power charger. It can work if you understand fully what the battery needs but at this point I don't recommend it or the battery will suffer a short life. I personally like them and use them and have done very successfully for close to 20 yrs now. But I did my homework and made the changes and AGM were not readily available at the time I made my decisions.

Note too that a lot of folk think Gels charge slower than other battery types. NOT SO. They can be charged at twice the rate of wet cells but at about half the rate of AGM.

Or the terms for the different types are;
-wets at~ 1/4 Capacity so a 220Ahr battery can be safely charged at 50A max
-gels at ~1/2C so a 220Ahr battery cna be safely charged at ~100A max
-agm at ~ 1C so a 220Ahr battery can be charged at ~220A max.

GUIDLINES, not absolutes as there are other important factors that play in.

You can use the box lid with a tie down strap to hold it in place even though the batts. are a bit too tall. Will still offer protection. The venting issue you actually have/had now even with the box lid in place even though you may not have realized it. Just the lid will not contain the hydrogen gas or any odour from charging, particularily overcharging.
Unless the batteries are actually in the living area this should not be a problem.

You might consider AGMs. They really do need a proper charging source for best life also, ie. 3 stage shore charger and alternator controller , but are closer to wet cells in their requirements than gels and many folk get good life from them without the controllers. They too though , compared to wets, are expensive..
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:37 AM   #25
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Thanks all for your help,

Will probably go for the AGM,s, and if new batteries do not fix the problem with the sonar, will look at a voltage conditioner as it is annoying to lose depth when anchoring.
Bruce - Gave the guys at Super start a call, they have a great range of batteries at good prices; Just have to work out to go with one that fits the box or get a bigger box or tray and fit batteries with more capacity.

Regards Scott
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:14 AM   #26
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Your engine(s) should be running when you operate the windlass and you should not use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor, you should use the engine(s).

Again - If your marine electrician is really a marine electrician, he should be able to figure out how the boat is wired and find a solution to your problem.

You should not have to ask on a boating forum if you are paying a marine electrician. If he is really a marine electrician, he should have figured this out long ago.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:46 AM   #27
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If he is really a marine electrician, he should have figured this out long ago.

SURE,

Most are simply R&R folks ,remove and replace, with ZERO concept of a vessels electric requirements.

This goes for many if not most boat yards , designing a system has never ever been part of their job description.

Design and repair are two different job descriptions.
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