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Old 05-12-2014, 06:02 PM   #81
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Jeff I didn't know commercial advertising was allowed I'm in the business as well have been for decades.
I assume you are deploying 802.11AC like we are. We still install the 2.4GHz components for those few devices that still require it.
We use iBWave Pro for designs and porp as well as the BVS Yellow Jacket for actual testing and reports.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:10 PM   #82
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Jeff I didn't know commercial advertising was allowed I'm in the business as well have been for decades.
Now you're just being a smart ass. We're not providing any services, equipment, systems, or anything. We're showing marinas how to create the next generation WiFi systems for their facilities. They pay us nothing - we do it because we want better WiFi for boaters. We've been writing about it in our marina newsletter for months.

I'm done responding to you, Bill. You have a need to find fault and make sideways responses like this at every turn. I hope you get to install better WiFi at marinas too if that's what your business is.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:12 PM   #83
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Now you're just being a smart ass. We're not providing any services, equipment, systems, or anything. We're showing marinas how to create the next generation WiFi systems for their facilities. They pay us nothing - we do it because we want better WiFi for boaters. We've been writing about it in our marina newsletter for months.

I'm done responding to you, Bill. You have a need to find fault and make sideways responses like this at every turn. I hope you get to install better WiFi at marinas too if that's what your business is.
You know me how Jeff? I think your comment should be retracted I do accept apologies...
I have done nothing but praise AC.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:13 PM   #84
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All of the above can be done to a MiFi as well.
Bill

OK Bill

So, you're telling me that you can do that to my MIFI.

Unless you gain access to my layer 2 network its going to be pretty tough to do.


AND even if you can get in through the WPA, you are on in a million, so I'm not worried.


SO, just how are you going to do it again?????
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:17 PM   #85
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OK Bill

So, you're telling me that you can do that to my MIFI.

Unless you gain access to my layer 2 network its going to be pretty tough to do.


AND even if you can get in through the WPA, you are on in a million, so I'm not worried.


SO, just how are you going to do it again?????
I'm not the person you need to worry about, that's my entire point about all this wireless fear mongering started by others. I'm just saying a MiFi can be seen at quite a distance over water with the proper equipment.
You actually have nothing to worry about neither do people that use public WiFi provided by AT&T, VZW, Comcast, Cable Vision and Cox there are plenty of other providers as well.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:30 PM   #86
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I'm not the person you need to worry about, that's my entire point about all this wireless fear mongering started by others. I'm just saying a MiFi can be seen at quite a distance over water with the proper equipment.
You actually have nothing to worry about neither do people that use public WiFi provided by AT&T, VZW, Comcast, Cable Vision and Cox there are plenty of other providers as well.
Bill
Bill, actually I do have something to worry about using marina wifi, and so does everybody else.

All I need to do is to set up a rogue dhcp server on my lap top and give out addresses that point to it as the default gateway.

Then all I have to do is find out the WPA key, which is as easy as buying a burger at the marinas little cafe and asking for it. I can sit at a table, eating a burger, and be in business.

Then after mr boater associates with the marinas WAP and requests a DHCP address from the local router I let my laptop answer the request. Sometimes I'll beat the marinas router to the punch, and sometimes I wont. I can force the issue by using up the dhcp address pool so thats not a problem either.

Then mr boater thinks he is safe and secure, while all along he is sending his traffic through my laptop.

Thats not fear mongering.

Thats the reality of life when you choose to connect your equipment to networks that were not engineered with security in mind.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:38 PM   #87
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You can do that knowing full well you would be in violation of the law.
I know the head of the FCC office in Philadelphia Dave Dumbrowski he would be on you like white on Rice. You would go to jail if you did this.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:38 PM   #88
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Wow ksanders. After reading that, I sure am glad my marina doesn't sell burgers.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:59 PM   #89
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You can do that knowing full well you would be in violation of the law.
I know the head of the FCC office in Philadelphia Dave Dumbrowski he would be on you like white on Rice. You would go to jail if you did this.
Bill
Bill, do you really think the criminals worry that its against the law. Really! I can hear then quaking in their boots now.

I am not a hacker. I work on the good guy side of the fence.

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Wow ksanders. After reading that, I sure am glad my marina doesn't sell burgers.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:10 PM   #90
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Kevin of coarse you're a good guy so is Jeff. I'm RUCKUS and Lucent LTE certified as well as numerous certs on the RF side of the house. I think the fear in using public wireless needs to be toned down a few notches.
Life's too short, there are many security measures in place in the banking and credit industries limiting potential abuses. They also limit your liability to almost -0-$$$'s.
Take care,
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:36 PM   #91
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Speaking for myself, I hope this conversation continues.
The knowledge being shared by all, helps the rest of us understand this new part of our online life.

Thanks to ALL of you sharing with us.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:42 PM   #92
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As the originator of this thread questioning whether public WiFi is widely available without a password, it's obvious that it is and carries certain risks.
All fear mongering aside there is as anyone who has read this far has learned, certain risks in using public WiFi. Those fears have been highlighted by ActiveCaptain and Ksanders among others.

I do wonder however why ActiveCaptain has promoted the use of public WiFi and has explained in his articles how to acquire WiFi signals from a considerable distance if using public WiFi carries the risks he's warned of.

Perhaps a solution is to use two media devices, one to surf the web using public WiFi, and another to conduct banking transactions and credit card purchases only via a MiFi unit.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:01 PM   #93
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As the originator of this thread questioning whether public WiFi is widely available without a password, it's obvious that it is and carries certain risks.
All fear mongering aside there is as anyone who has read this far has learned, certain risks in using public WiFi. Those fears have been highlighted by ActiveCaptain and Ksanders among others.

I do wonder however why ActiveCaptain has promoted the use of public WiFi and has explained in his articles how to acquire WiFi signals from a considerable distance if using public WiFi carries the risks he's warned of.

Perhaps a solution is to use two media devices, one to surf the web using public WiFi, and another to conduct banking transactions and credit card purchases only via a MiFi unit.
I cannot speak for Active Captain, but he seems to have some influence with marinas. Perhaps he can help them engineer more security into their systems. He seems knowledgable enough to do so.

Marinas have no real business interest in providing wifi to their guests, except as a tool to increase customer happiness, which increases revenue in the end.

We are in a very fast growth period for wireless technology. I'm not a cellular engineer (like Bill seems to be), but we have all seen the data speeds available go up and the costs go down for cellular based data in just the last few years.

The MIFI technology came even later with consumer available MIFI routers being only a very few years old.

I've said this before, but I really see the need for public wifi decreasing in importance every day. Cellular based access will continue to grow and prices will continue to fall.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:08 PM   #94
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I've said this before, but I really see the need for public wifi decreasing in importance every day. Cellular based access will continue to grow and prices will continue to fall.
I hope you're right at least on the prices opinion.

I have a dlink camera connected to the internet to monitor our house when we're cruising. I like to view it once a day. Using a MiFi unit to do so would burn through my 4 Gig allowance in a week or so. Until prices come down, public WiFi is the only practical way to do this.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:21 PM   #95
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Especially if you're on the east coast, have your marina contact us. We've been working with a company that has a great model and fantastic expertise in designing and installing marina WiFi systems - it's all they do. We believe that instead of a marina asking you to not stream video, they should invite you to use NetFlix, YouTube, Skype, and all of the streaming you'd like. We've been involved with a half-dozen marinas using these new capabilities and the results have been outstanding. And since we're pretty close to marina management and their business practices, we're also able to help them see how to fund it and actually save money by installing the right stuff.

There are some marinas that won't be able to support this newer level of WiFi experience because the backend internet access just isn't there - although that's becoming rare too. But the time is about to end on accepting 500 kbps connectivity that comes and goes when you're at a marina. You'll see...

We are north of St. Louis about 70-75 miles on the upper Mississippi in a rural area, thanks for the suggestion if you think it'll help I'll pass your info along. We used to have decent wifi but the provider lost a antenna in this area and the cost to repair was more than than it was worth to them for the number of customers they had. The marina had 2 choices as I understand between Hugh's Net or Blue Sky, they went with Blue Sky. It's very slow compared to AT&T 4G. My wife uses a laptop and I've thought about buying the hotspot service for my iPad so she can use that instead of the marinas wifi
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:22 PM   #96
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I do wonder however why ActiveCaptain has promoted the use of public WiFi and has explained in his articles how to acquire WiFi signals from a considerable distance if using public WiFi carries the risks he's warned of.
Because if you use a VPN while connected to public/open WiFi, you're quite safe. VPN use is also something that I've written extensively about over the last 4 years.

A VPN creates a secure tunnel going across an open WiFi/internet connection. No one between your computer and the internet access across the WiFi provider can see what you're accessing because it's totally encoded by the VPN. Your encrypted transactions are decrypted by the VPN in another location (generally in another city or country) and sent onto the location you intended it to go to.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:30 PM   #97
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Thanks for that reminder AC. I do remember reading your article on VPN a year or so ago.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:43 PM   #98
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I hope you're right at least on the prices opinion.

I have a dlink camera connected to the internet to monitor our house when we're cruising. I like to view it once a day. Using a MiFi unit to do so would burn through my 4 Gig allowance in a week or so. Until prices come down, public WiFi is the only practical way to do this.

I have two dlink cameras on my boat and I check them a couple of times a day.

I'm really sure that they don't take that much bandwidth unless you're looking at them all the time.

I have a 30gig shared plan with at&t. It used to cost $7.50 a gig, but that went down last month.

That plan runs the internet access for my home, my and the wifes business, the boat, ipads, iphones, etc...

We watch movies, stream video, etc... and almost never run over.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:59 PM   #99
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Marinas have no real business interest in providing wifi to their guests, except as a tool to increase customer happiness, which increases revenue in the end.

...

I've said this before, but I really see the need for public wifi decreasing in importance every day. Cellular based access will continue to grow and prices will continue to fall.
I believe there is a lot of change coming with marina WiFi. I don't see it as a service any different from water, pump out, or floating docks. The typical boat's internet consumption hasn't doubled in the last couple of years. It has quadripled (and more). Marina WiFi systems put in 3-5 years ago can't keep up with that. And you can bet that our use for high bandwidth access will continue to skyrocket. I know that the software I'm working on right now counts on intermittent high bandwidth to accomplish some of the next generation things I'd like to provide (sharing live sensor data between users).

You can see some of the things we're telling marinas. Our Marina Minute goes out to thousands of marinas every Tuesday morning. It has a unique format that guarantees to only take about a minute to read. We typically get a few dozen responses. The Perfect Storm entry back in February drew hundreds of marinas asking questions and wanting more information to prepare for what's coming:
http://www.themarinaminute.com/2014/...ect-storm.html

Here's a follow on article talking about some of the changes coming with TV at marinas:
http://www.themarinaminute.com/2014/...tal-world.html

I think marinas are going to step up over the next couple of years to provide exceptional WiFi access. We're seeing it start already - Marina Jack in Sarasota, Ft Pierce Municipal, Legacy in Ft Myers. These marinas now expect their customers to use streaming video while at the marina - for no extra charge. I was at Ft Pierce myself after their new installation. It was a Friday night with 40 boats online at the same time in the marina (there is remote monitoring that allows the WiFi company to view the load and they told me). I was streaming movies to 3 devices and tested my throughput on another device - 5 mbps still left for me. This was at 8 pm with 40 other users on too.

The app world is a connected world with hundreds of megabytes being updated weekly along with operating system updates and many other large data usages. The navigation world is alive with NOAA chart updates every week amounting to a gigabyte of download every month or so. Weather display is more animated and visual and requires megabytes of download. Cellular will always be available but the high bandwidth uses will likely be very expensive over our cruising life during the next decade. Things like Google Fiber (cheap, high bandwidth internet) won't be accessible over cellular - they'll need WiFi.

Today we're helping marinas recognize this future. WiFi is a great reason to pull someone from an anchorage into their facility. The model has to be right and it can't cost the boater anything extra. Remember too that there's a next generation of employees who can run their businesses or work for others from their boat. But they need high bandwidth, in general, to do it.

There are about a dozen marinas experimenting with this now. I'd bet there will be a hundred or more by summer 2015. I'd bet that many reading this would be tempted to go to a specific marina if they knew they had this kind of WiFi service.

But none of that is why I think it's going to explode. And I fully admit that this next statement will make some people's head explode. Implementing this type of exceptional WiFi at many marinas will actually save the marina money within 1 year. Given that, how many do you think will convert?
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:14 PM   #100
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I don't want to quote it because its so long, but very good post AC!

Wifi, is just part of the portfolio of services that a marina offers. It will be attractive to some, and not so attractive to others.

For us, the important thing isnt wifi, its things like the proximity of shopping, and restaurants, etc... The general cleanliness, and even the pet friendliness is also very important.

We dont care about or consider the cost of our boats networking, and with LTE we can stream a high def movie, so "free wifi" wont bring us in. Same with laundry, and bathrooms. We have those, so they aren't a pull for us.
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