What is this relay for

[timjet]

I'm installing a new battery charger and in poking around the battery selector switch and CB panel I came across this relay. It's a Hela 12v 30 amp relay, number is: 4RA 003 510-08. There are two of them right next to each other. There are 4 wires going to the relay, yellow black purple and on one the 4th wire is orange and on the other the 4th wire is orange and red. Those two orange and orange/red wires both go to the hot side of one of the battery banks. Both the orange and orange/red wires have a 10amp fuse before they connect to the hot battery. Interestingly both fuses are blown.

Anybody have any ideal what those relay's are for.

It has molded printing on the relays that say 30 amp, but the blown fuses are 10 amp, probably why they're blown.

 

[rwidman]

Relays can be used for many things and the fact that they are not secured (or insulated), just flopping around makes me believe that they have been added by a past owner or his mechanic.

What are they for? What on your boat doesn't work?

If you can't find anything that doesn't work, trace the wires and see where they go.

 

[Xsbank]

Very common for lights, horn, etc. Automotive, they are very common in the fuse boxes of cars. Spotlight? Deck lights?

Like Ron says.

 

[timjet]

Everything that I know of works. They were not flopping around and were not added by a PO. Since they are hot wired to the battery and since everything in the manual that's hot wired to the battery works, I'm wondering. Tracing the wires.........mmmm that will be a job!

Since these are 30 amp relays, should they not have 30 amp fuses?

 

[LaBomba]

Since these are 30 amp relays, should they not have 30 amp fuses?

Not necessarily. The relays will handle "UP TO" 30 amps but whatever is hooked up to them and the wiring may only be good for 10 amps.

 

[Edelweiss]

According to the manufacture, It's a broad use relay and common to many makes of cars. A few examples of use are lights, fuel pumps and windshield wipers. They don't list a marine application for this relay.

The relay itself may be rated at 30 amps, but the device circuit (wire between the device and relay) is probably rated at 10 amps. I wouldn't be tempted to install a larger fuse without investigating further.

 

[timjet]

OK, thanks everyone. I will install another 10 amp fuse and see what happens. Since there are two I suspect they have something to do with the engines, especially since the wire that connects the relay to the batteries are the same color except one has a red strip on the orange insulation and the other doesn't. The other 3 wires on both are exactly the same color.
What on a diesel engine could possibly have a relay hot wired to the batteries protected by a 10 amp fuse?

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Since you were buying a new charger did you consider that this might have been hooked up to the old charger and that is why it did not work?

 

[timjet]

No the charger works fine I just need a bigger on. I think the key to uncovering this is to know there are two with exactly the same wires going to it and that they are both hot wired to the battery.

The following are hot wired to the battery and can be switched off:
Fwd and Aft shower sumps.
3 bilge pumps.
2 volt meters
3 CO detectors
Stereo memory

The wires on the relays are not switched at least not in the CB panel where they are located.

 

[Ski in NC]

Someone has been doing some creative wiring!! That's aways fun sorting. Try a new fuse and see what happens. Or trace wires. Since they are not mounted, probably not factory.

Do your engine alarms work? Bilge high level alarms?

 

[timjet]

Since they are not mounted, probably not factory.

Do your engine alarms work? Bilge high level alarms?

They are mounted, I unscrewed one to get a better picture. I'm pretty sure they are factory. All engine alarms work but maybe a high water alarm that I'm not aware off. I know this boat pretty well so I don't think I would miss a sensor, unless it's on the engine. Bilge pumps come on via a float switch automatically, they all work.

Would a alarm of any sort need a relay?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. t. I'm surprised no-one has suggested this. Put in a 10A fuse and short the relay.

 

[FlyWright]

My guess would be something rarely used but used in a pair, like a windshield wash or wiper blades. Just a wild guess, though.

 

[Aquabelle]

With the fuses out, SOMETHING mustn't be working! Docking lights, bilge blowers....?

 

[Ski in NC]

Maybe engine room blowers that come on with engines, or come on with engine room temp switch??

 

[timjet]

I agree somethings not working and probably never has since I've owned the boat.

The relay is located in the battery selector switch CB panel and the only thing on this panel are items hot wired to the battery. Those items I listed above, and they are all on a switch that requires a small screw drive to depress a locking device to turn off. IOW those items are important items and are never meant to be turned off.
The relays in question are not switch and hot wired to the battery.

All other electrical items on the boat are routed through a salon CB panel or helm CB panel. Carver installed the battery selector switch panel (where the relays are located) and populated it with items that are never intended to be turned off. This fact alone leads me to believe these relays were never meant to be un-powered, but why.

 

[Ski in NC]

Could be something related to a gasoline engine version of the same boat. Like automatic closing fuel valves or something related to blowers. Some boat mfr's who make a gas and diesel version of a boat make only one main harness. It will have some bogus stuff.

 

[timjet]

Maybe engine room blowers that come on with engines, or come on with engine room temp switch??

Blowers are controlled by 2 huge relays located behind the instrument panel on the helm. Switch is on the instrument panel.

 

[Larry M]

We have a relay for the stop/fuel solenoid. The switch is at the instrument panel and the relay is next to the solenoid by the injector pump.

Have you checked the manual for the engines?

 

[timjet]

Could be something related to a gasoline engine version of the same boat. Like automatic closing fuel valves or something related to blowers. Some boat mfr's who make a gas and diesel version of a boat make only one main harness. It will have some bogus stuff.

Actually I was thinking the same thing myself. Carver made my boat in many more gas versions than diesel. But then why the blown fuses?

 

[timjet]

We have a relay for the stop/fuel solenoid. The switch is at the instrument panel and the relay is next to the solenoid by the injector pump.

Have you checked the manual for the engines?

Engines operate normally. Just had a re-man installed last November.

The wire colors mean something.
Yellow
Black
Purple
Orange
Orange with red stripe.

 

[timjet]

Greetings,
Mr. t. I'm surprised no-one has suggested this. Put in a 10A fuse and short the relay.

RT; please explain further.

 

[Larry M]

Here's how that relay is meant to be wired:

-30 = constant [positive (+)] power (usually wired direct to batteries or positive distribution post.
-85 = coil ground (wired to the negative (-) battery terminal or any grounded metal or engine).
-86 = coil power (wired to the control source. could be a switch or IGN or ACC circuit.)
-87 = switched [positive (+)] power output. (when the relay coil is powered, lead/pin 87 is connected to lead/pin 30)

 

[timjet]

Thanks Larry

 

[caltexflanc]

Here is what the wires should be for...

DC WIRING COLOR CODE CHART

 

[hmason]

I wonder if your boat has/had prelubers. We had them but one pump failed and was sooo costly to replace that I just removed them. It was awhile ago, but those relays look awfully familiar. Howard

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. t. Put a new 10A fuse in and jumper between (thanks to Mr. L for the pin designations) 87 and 30. NOT the safest thing to be doing but a momentary connection might shed some light on the conundrum.

 

[timjet]

Greetings,
Mr. t. Put a new 10A fuse in and jumper between (thanks to Mr. L for the pin designations) 87 and 30. NOT the safest thing to be doing but a momentary connection might shed some light on the conundrum.

So I would be supplying power to whatever the relay is connected to bypassing any switch or control circuit to whatever the relay is connected to.
Yes??

 

[ulysses]

Was your prior battery charger equipped with a temperature sensor?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. t. Yes. The relay would no longer be in the circuit. Let me say again...This is NOT the safest way of testing but it might energize an alarm or some such and hopefully not set your boat on fire. Might be best to get the opinion of someone who knows what they're talking about. I'm sorry I brought it up....