Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-19-2018, 07:45 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Pilitak
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 37
Vesper AIS or VHF radio with AIS?

Looking for some opinions.
Background:
I have older Raymarine GPS. Chartplotter/Fishfinder, Radar, and Standard Horizon VHF (with DSC). Up to now, we have also been using an older laptop with an older version of Nobeltec. The laptop runs Windows XP.
I recently purchased a new laptop to operate Rosepoint Coastal Explorer software. I am also considering trying to connect the laptop to the existing GPS and plotter, as well as another GPS source (either a puck, or to an AIS source that has a built in GPS).
Now my question. Should I buy an AIS only unit such as a Vesper, or should I buy a second VHF with DSC and AIS built in? What features would I not receive with the VHF option? The VHF with AIS is less expensive than the Vesper unit.
Any other ideas of how or what to add to allow AIS to be displayed on the new Coastal Explorer laptop?
Thanks in advance for the opinions and suggestions,
Tom
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 08:22 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
GGroves's Avatar
 
City: Potomac Falls, VA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Vingilot II
Vessel Model: 2004 DeFever 45 RPH
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 33
Tom, since you already have a vhf w/ DSC, look at adding an AIS to your navigation suite. For recreation AIS, there is Class B with receive and transmit or Class C, which is receive only. By the way, the VHF with AIS is Class C AIS.

The big question is connecting to your equipment. The Vesper AIS’s can communicate over NMEA 1083 or NMEA 2000 (N2k). We have the Vesper WatchMate with its own screen and it has several advantages: 1) it can be used stand alone without networking. 2) it can network over both types of NMEA, and 3) it has a very useful anchor watch system.

Your biggest problem will be connecting to the Raymarine chartplotter. If it is an older unit, then it communicates over its proprietary Seatalk network and will require a Seatalk to NMEA converter. Because you have used this system with your computer running Nobeltec (I did this for 11 years on our last boat) you already have the converter. Then you can hook it up vis a USB/NMEA converter for your new laptop.
I have probably rambled too much with this response. I would go for the Vesper AIS Class B (transmit/receive) or C (receive only). There are other threads discussing the pros and cons of either system, but when cruise, we like to follow the adage of “see and be seen”.
Gary
__________________

GGroves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 08:27 PM   #3
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 581
"What features would I not receive with the vhf option?"

The vhf option is receive-only, meaning you see ais targets around you but they don't see you. The Vesper is a class b AIS devise that transmits your position as well as receives and displays ais targets around you.
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 08:39 PM   #4
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Can I please tack on a question I have without needing to start a new thread.

I have a StandHorizon with AIS receive and target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG.

Can I feed the AIS RX record to a Garmin GPS with AIS capability?

(I also have a class B AIS but am fighting an RX issue right now, TX is fine).
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 08:41 PM   #5
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
"What features would I not receive with the vhf option?"

The vhf option is receive-only, meaning you see ais targets around you but they don't see you. The Vesper is a class b AIS devise that transmits your position as well as receives and displays ais targets around you.
Hi Ken,

I have a Vesper 6000, connected to laptop w Coastal Explorer by USB. Very nice setup. I see other AIS vessels, their speed, heading, and name, graphically on the CE chart. They see me too.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 08:57 PM   #6
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 581
Richard, I've heard good things about the Vesper. I also have Coastal Explorer running on a laptop but my primary setup is Furuno vx2 with a Comnav ais integrated. Looking forward to seeing you again next summer in SE AK.
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 10:19 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Rain Dog's Avatar
 
City: Navarre, FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Rain Dog
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 81
It depends a lot on which Vesper.

Some Vespers will act as an NMEA gateway. That means you can connect your existing electronics to the Vesper, connect your Laptop to Vesper via Wifi, and you will have the data from all your instruments on your laptop.

This assume you existing electronics are new enough to output NMEA.
Rain Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 10:25 PM   #8
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Dog View Post

This assume you existing electronics are new enough to output NMEA.
183 or 2000, or does it matter?
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2018, 10:39 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Rain Dog's Avatar
 
City: Navarre, FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Rain Dog
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
183 or 2000, or does it matter?
Except for the 850, all the Vespers I am aware of support both 183 and 2000.
Rain Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 01:21 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Ftbinc's Avatar
 
City: Chicago
Vessel Name: Oma
Vessel Model: Manatee
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 74
Hi Tom
I had the same thoughts/choice to make this past spring. I went with the vesper Xp8000 unit. ($700.00 after discounts and rebates). And an icon VHS with an internal gps $320). I too have an older raymarine chart plotter. I am able to connect the chartploter to the 0183 network and get Gps from the Vesper. I am able to connect my iPads up wirelessly to the Vesper unit as well and display WatchMate aid information. I can also get iNavX to work With the Vesper unit, displaying both ais info and chartplotting. The computer is able to connect either wirelessly or via USP cable. I am going to remove the raymarine unit and install a couple of windows tablets instead

Very happy with the Vesper unit. Get the external antenna!
Paul
Ftbinc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 01:31 AM   #11
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Country: US of A
Vessel Name: SEEADLER
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 704
I have a Vesper 6000 feeding a Windows 10 laptop with Coastal Explorer on a big external display. Over 5-months underway in all conditions this summer, I was never disappointed. I keep my Raytheon C-80 clutter-free for primary radar only.

Milltech Marine, the guy in Port Orchard who is the regional retailer is very good at install support and gives a Seattle boat show discount
AlaskaProf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 01:45 AM   #12
DDW
Senior Member
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 478
I have two Vesper 8000 units, one on each boat. It is a very nice piece of equipment, 0183 in and out, NMEA2000, and a WiFi server. Very easily configurable though a web server interface. Your laptop or iPad can connect to GPS, AIS, and instrument data wirelessly. Using your phone or pad, with only the Vesper powered, you have an AIS plotter, and an anchor alarm. They support the product with periodic firmware and software updates.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 08:44 AM   #13
Guru
 
Maerin's Avatar
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 500
My transponder is a now-discontinued AMEC 101 Camino. Purchased from Milltech, highly recommend them. Works perfectly. NMEA 0183 output into a multiplexer with its own dedicated GPS as well as the VHF antenna which is purpose made for AIS. My experience with different AIS's is that the VHF antenna has a significant impact on range, I am not a big fan of splitters, just seems like adding a point of failure for 2 devices. Mount the antenna high and alone if possible. The dedicated GPS also allows for a redundant GPS, which was helpful when one went TU.



Regarding your older Raymarine, it may not use AIS, you'll have to read the manual. It also will need a dedicated NMEA connection to the AIS- to the point that it will have to be 38,400 baud. You can have multiple devices listening to the AIS output, but they must be configured to the proper baud rate. Rosepoint's NEMO gateway would be a big help, although as others have mentioned, certain Vesper models can act as a gateway. The guys at Milltech can guide you, it will pay you to gain some familiarity with the technical aspects of connecting all the devices unless you plan to have outside help. NMEA connection can be very frustrating with each manufacturer having slightly different schemes, color codes, etc.



One thing with NMEA to watch is configuring the sentences each device is transmitting. NMEA0183 is relatively slow with narrow bandwidth. You'll be tempted to just turn on ALL the sentences to make sure you have everything you need, but it can overload the network and cause it to lock up. Same with data loops with say GPS information being generated by multiple sources. So turn on ONLY those sentences you need, and avoid duplication between devices. A multiplexer or gateway will address that problem. It will be a big help to diagram out the connections and the sentences on the connections before stringing any cable. NMEA 0183 isn't plug and play, N2K is (well, it's supposed to be). Attached is a pdf that deals with NMEA sentences, very helpful.



I use an Actisense NDC-4; my system is all NMEA as yours is, and, although it's old technology by today's standards, once configured, it's pretty bulletproof. It's worked great for me in 8 yrs of full time cruising and some 30,0000 miles.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf NMEA__sentence_info.pdf (111.4 KB, 15 views)
__________________
Steve Sipe
Selene 4303 Maerin
http://maerin.net
Maerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 09:21 AM   #14
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Can I please tack on a question I have without needing to start a new thread.

I have a StandHorizon with AIS receive and target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG.

Can I feed the AIS RX record to a Garmin GPS with AIS capability?

(I also have a class B AIS but am fighting an RX issue right now, TX is fine).

Yes, that should work. Just disconnect the other one first so it's not getting two RX feeds that might confuse it.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:32 AM   #15
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,110
Have you considered "Keeping it in the Family?" A Raymarine AIS and connect into your Seatalk backbone.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 01:10 PM   #16
Veteran Member
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Pilitak
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 37
Wow, Great responses, and thanks alot! This forum is a great place for sharing.
First, I did not know (but probably should have figured it out by pricing alone) that VHF radios with built in AIS only received. So that is out (for me).
I am just starting this "adventure" with the new laptop. I had it down at the boat yesterday to "play with it" a bit. I didn't have a lot of time, as I was doing some engine maintenance and spent most of my time there. I could not get the Rosepoint to "find" my existing GPS signal (using the same USB that the old laptop used for this). I am heading back today to try some more ideas.
I definitely want a redundant GPS as my existing unit (both antenna and device) are 2002 models. The GPS is a Raymarine RN300, there is a wind instrument, autopilot, and 2 "7 inch plotters" (one used for charts and fishfinder, the other for radar) and all operate on Seatalk as well as NMEA 0183. The laptop I am replacing, used the RN300 for GPS signal, hence my desire for redundancy. I could just use a GPS puck, but I think AIS would be very useful.
I will look at the Raymarine suite of AIS, but I think I am leaning toward a Vesper unit. Besides the WiFi ability, are there any other "major" differences between the 6000 and 8000 Vesper units?
I am far from a computer expert, so I am hoping that my new software (Rosepoint) will just "find" my existing GPS signal. I will investigate if I need all of my equipment turned on, try different USB ports, etc. to see if I can get it to work. In a perfect implementation, I would like the Rosepoint software to be able to use all the info (don't really care about the radar, but maybe as a backup) from the system, but the minimum would be the GPS info (which is basically all I used for the last 2 years).

Thanks again,
Tom
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 01:41 PM   #17
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,110
Tom, give Rose Point a call they can help you integrate your system to work with CE. I have found them to be very helpful.
__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 02:22 PM   #18
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
Tom, give Rose Point a call they can help you integrate your system to work with CE. I have found them to be very helpful.
Hi Tom,

If you install a Vesper AIS, it will provide a gps signal. I connect it to CE via USB, and so CE has both gps and ais to work with. My old Ray stuff has its own gps signal, so provides redundance.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 02:22 PM   #19
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Country: US of A
Vessel Name: SEEADLER
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 704
I second the above re: Rosepoint support; your problem is most likely one of port allocation and they can sort that out in a few minutes. I also endorse the Vesper transceiver.
AlaskaProf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 03:06 PM   #20
Veteran Member
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Conundrum
Vessel Model: Nordlund 63' Pilothouse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCook View Post
Hi Ken,

I have a Vesper 6000, connected to laptop w Coastal Explorer by USB. Very nice setup. I see other AIS vessels, their speed, heading, and name, graphically on the CE chart. They see me too.


I also integrated my vesper with CE but went with the 8000 and pull the data off wifi. Really easy to connect the vesper to the boat wifi then just configure CE to "listen" on a specific IP address and port.
__________________

tozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012