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06-11-2019, 08:19 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Essex, Ct.
Vessel Name: Harmony
Vessel Model: 1982 41' President
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 442
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Tigres windlass wire conductor size?
I am replacing my 15 yr old Good Windlass with a Lofrans Tigres.
I am trying to confirm whether the existing cables are correctly sized for the newer unit.
The Tigres is a 1500 Watt, 12 vdc unit.
App current draw is 80 -130 amps on the spec sheet.
My cables are 35' feet long so the sizing is based on the round trip of 70'. I know enough to be dangerous, lol.
The spec sheet also says the conductor size is 50mm squared.
I am sure it is fairly thick cable.
__________________
Tom
"Harmony"
1982 41' President
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06-11-2019, 08:23 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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The almost impossible task will be bending the heavy cable within the back cover of the windlass once you wire it up.
You may want to think about a battery close to the windlass to reduce cable size.
Before you order it all...you might want to check what I have said as my wire size (1/0) was a real challenge.
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06-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
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I have a 1200 watt Tigress.
I installed the reversing solenoid under the deck close to the windlass and connected the heavy cables from the battery to the input. I used slightly smaller diameter cables to connect the solenoid to the windlass. The short distance has no effect on operation as long as you use the thickest cable that will make the bend inside the housing.
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06-12-2019, 05:35 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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I too used lighter cables at the windlass, but I thought it was still lousy engineering to have to bend thick cables that much.
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06-12-2019, 08:30 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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I have a Tigress and it was wired up professionally using 4/0!! The total run is less than 50'. Maybe that's all they had in the shop that day.
The installation manual states for 50-75' to use 50mm2 or 2AWG. For greater than 75' to use 3/0. I wonder if this is a typo because there is a huge difference in size between the two?
- edit - Looked it up. 50mm2 is 0 gauge, so that makes a lot more sense to use 0 gauge for up to 75' and 3/0 for runs greater.
Ken
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06-12-2019, 08:58 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,148
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Have no idea how they got 4/0 into the casing...
I have quite a bit of wiring experience and had other pros to confer with when doing mine...they scratched their heads too with wiring the newer model.
What cracks me up is the factory manual installation photos that show cable diameter WELL under their recommended gauge.
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06-12-2019, 09:56 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
City: Eastcoast
Vessel Model: American Tug 41
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 254
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TJM,
I also have the Tigres, its a great unit. Your current spec looks correct; for DC, the power equation is extremely simple: I=P/V
Therefore, current = 1500W/12VDC = 125 Amps
The Lofrans installation manual seems to contradict itself when it says you need wire that is 2AWG as well as 50mm2.
Anyway it seems part of your problem is you want to know what guage wire is already at your old windlass correct? There are calipers that can help measure, or you could simply go to a hardware store and buy a very short length of 0 and 2 AWG wire and take it to the boat to compare.
A great resource for this kind of problem is BlueSea, as they sell a lot of electrical supplies for boats and their website on wire and circuit breaker selections is here:
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437
By BlueSea definition, a windlass is a "non-critical" circuit. Once you determine the size of your current wires, you might also call Lofrans or Bluesea to get additional advice.
(The BlueSea circuit wizard tool seems to suggest 1AWG in your situation)
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06-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
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I replaced a 1000W Muir Cougar with the tigress.
Just to be on the safe side I installed a Group 27 “helper battery” near the windlass, and have no problem lifting over 500 pounds of dead weight, plus breaking the anchor out.
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06-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
Have no idea how they got 4/0 into the casing...
I have quite a bit of wiring experience and had other pros to confer with when doing mine...they scratched their heads too with wiring the newer model.
What cracks me up is the factory manual installation photos that show cable diameter WELL under their recommended gauge.
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I'm not sure what they used from the relay box to the windlass, it could be smaller. Whatever they did it works well - so very little voltage drop. (This was installed before I purchased the boat)
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06-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
City: Essex, Ct.
Vessel Name: Harmony
Vessel Model: 1982 41' President
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 442
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Hi Kevin:
I like your idea about the other battery under the windlass.
I assume it is wired in parallel with the feed lines from the engine room ?
(positive to positive and negative to negative)
That would make it on the normal charging circuit as the house batteries correct ?
Is that normal practice ?
__________________
Tom
"Harmony"
1982 41' President
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06-12-2019, 01:34 PM
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#11
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Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
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Wire is usually sized for voltage drop as well as having enough ampacity to carry the current. For a windlass a 1 v total drop is usally acceptable.
So with 130 amps of current over a 70' total round trip distance requires 1/0 to keep the voltage drop just below 1.0 v. Since the ampacity of that wire, its ability to carry current without overheating the insulation, is 285 amps you should be fine with 1/0.
1/0 cable at geniunedealz.com is about $4.79/foot. You can save a little money at the expense of complexity by installing a separate battery forward, but with the cost of smaller wire (I would use #6), another fuse and maybe a battery combiner, you won't save much.
David
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06-12-2019, 03:07 PM
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#12
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJM
Hi Kevin:
I like your idea about the other battery under the windlass.
I assume it is wired in parallel with the feed lines from the engine room ?
(positive to positive and negative to negative)
That would make it on the normal charging circuit as the house batteries correct ?
Is that normal practice ?
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Yes it is charged along with the house bank. It has a disconnect that I turn off when it is not needed to be on for charging or use, so that it is not partially discharged when I trey to use it.
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06-15-2019, 08:38 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
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I installed the 1500 Lofrans Tigres 5 or 6 yrs. ago. I used 4/0 wire for a round trip of about 55 - 60 ft. to minimize the Vdrop.
You will NOT get 4/0 into the case, no way.
Use a power stud from Blue seas nearby to terminate the + & - feeds. I used the ones with the several small terminal screws on the base so I could also ground [-] the control box and direction foot switches.
Then if I remember correctly I finished with #4 AWG for the final few feet. I will try to remember to check the final wire size but pretty sure it was #4.
My calculated Vdrop total was low, no I don't remember, but well within acceptable limits.
For the final run with I tried several wire sizes, short lengths, untill one fitted properly. I also wrapped the conductors with a protective sleeve, split lengthwise on a spiral and then Tywraped into place and to keep the spiral closed, as there are several sharp edges in there the conductors needed to be protected from.
Works just fine. The big Vdrop is getting the power to the studs. Just mount them close so the #4 run is kept to the minimum.
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06-16-2019, 12:13 AM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric
I installed the 1500 Lofrans Tigres 5 or 6 yrs. ago. I used 4/0 wire for a round trip of about 55 - 60 ft. to minimize the Vdrop.
You will NOT get 4/0 into the case, no way.
Use a power stud from Blue seas nearby to terminate the + & - feeds. I used the ones with the several small terminal screws on the base so I could also ground [-] the control box and direction foot switches.
Then if I remember correctly I finished with #4 AWG for the final few feet. I will try to remember to check the final wire size but pretty sure it was #4.
My calculated Vdrop total was low, no I don't remember, but well within acceptable limits.
For the final run with I tried several wire sizes, short lengths, untill one fitted properly. I also wrapped the conductors with a protective sleeve, split lengthwise on a spiral and then Tywraped into place and to keep the spiral closed, as there are several sharp edges in there the conductors needed to be protected from.
Works just fine. The big Vdrop is getting the power to the studs. Just mount them close so the #4 run is kept to the minimum.
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That is what I would do, get the big cable close and then run the biggest wire that will go into the windlass.
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06-16-2019, 10:07 AM
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#15
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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Took a look at how my windlass was wired and it's 4/0 between the batteries and the relay box and #1 from the box and into the windlass about 5' away.
Ken
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07-15-2019, 03:23 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
City: Essex, Ct.
Vessel Name: Harmony
Vessel Model: 1982 41' President
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 442
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Just to close up this thread and to say thanks to all of the contributors.
The current set up was #2/0 AWG gage wire to underneath the front deck.
I added 3 pcs of #4 AWG wire from the solenoid to the windlass and it works awesome. These short runs are about 18" long.
__________________
Tom
"Harmony"
1982 41' President
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07-18-2019, 10:49 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
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You should be fine
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