Thinking about removing inverter

[Gabe n Em]

Man! All this inverter bashing! We've been pining for one to make coffee in the morning without having to run the noisemaker. If any of you want to get rid of your 2-4,000 w inverters or inverter/charger, we'd be happy to take it off your hands! !

 

[BandB]

Man! All this inverter bashing! We've been pining for one to make coffee in the morning without having to run the noisemaker. If any of you want to get rid of your 2-4,000 w inverters or inverter/charger, we'd be happy to take it off your hands! !

I don't think the bashing is of inverters, but it's of inverter/chargers. I'm sure not all brands, but a lot of people have trouble with the combo units.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Ah, once again the broad brush of opinion catches everything in its path. Never had a problem with our combo.

 

[Andy G]

When you replace your inverter/charger with a charger only, you will have to wire the incoming power feeder directly to your AC panel rather than first going through the transfer switch on the inverter. You will have to power the new charger from a secondary breaker on the AC panel. If the inverter/charger was originally added after the factory built the boat, it should be relatively easy to do. If it was installed at the factory it will probably take some new wiring.

Over the years I have always been impressed by your knowledge of electrical boating issues.

Perhaps the mods may consider a moniker to recognise this.

 

[Pack Mule]

We repaired this the other day . New connector and new wire .The problem, the repair and the fact that you guys were here to help gave us a better understanding and more confidence of our system . Thanks again everyone.

 

[O C Diver]

One of the most common problems with inverters stems from systems that are often poorly designed or an add on without considering associated equipment. Simply, if you're running off of stored energy in a battery, adding an inverter to a boat that didn't have one, would logically require reevaluating the battery bank capacity. If you consider that running a microwave off an inverter can result in a sustained draw of well over 100 amps, it should be apparent that a small battery bank is clearly insufficient.

One of the areas where inverters do really well is when there used while the propulsion engine is running and its alternator is producing the power the inverter is consuming. Really like the idea of cooking with a Crock Pot while motoring to the next anchorage. Also running 120 VAC chargers, TVs, computers, or other devices while cruising without a generator running is a big plus with a miniscule operating cost.

Ted

 

[FF]

"If any of you want to get rid of your 2-4,000 w inverters or inverter/charger, we'd be happy to take it off your hands! !"

Just to make coffee, a truck stop 2000W unit will be under $200 and last for decades.

Most will run a microwave too, but not at the same time.

2000 Watt Compact Power Inverter by AIMS

Cheaper than shipping someones old unit.

 

[sdowney717]

I installed 2 inverters.
One is a Minuteman UPS I modified to run my nav PC. I removed its dead battery and ran short big DC wires from my 3000 watt inverter to power it. Added an internal cooling fan, and cut the circuit traces for the powerfail beeper.

I did that because every time I switched AC power sources, my NAV PC would shut down. So the Minuteman UPS now needs to be on to run the NAV PC. And it has worked well for me.

Other is a 3000 watt MSW I hard wired into the boat AC system. I can select from shore-gen-inverter power for the AC system.

I setup a 20 amp 2 pole on-off-on switch to switch all outlets between AC system power and the minuteman UPS power just in case I want to run all the outlets using the Minuteman UPS. As a backup AC power source in case the gen fails and the 3000 watt inverter fails I will have some AC power for trouble lights etc....
With the setting in the middle, all power to all AC outlets is off, except the fridge and microwave are on their own branch circuits.

The little minuteman UPS can run a trouble light, the TV, the PC, a weller solder gun all together. Adding the DC computer fan into the case seems to have boosted it's output since I think it is only listed at 200 watts, yet it runs so much more, closer to 400 watts output.

 

[rwidman]

Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.

The same thing can be said about engines.

 

[rwidman]

I don't think the bashing is of inverters, but it's of inverter/chargers. I'm sure not all brands, but a lot of people have trouble with the combo units.

If you're judging by posts on boating forums, remember, most people don't post about things they don't have trouble with.

Since inverters and chargers use some identical components, there is a cost savings of combining the two into one unit. On the other hand, reliability is a little better with separate units because if one fails, the other still works.

I don't understand why anyone would post that they don't like inverters. It's fine, if you don't want one, don't buy one. It's nothing to brag about.

Inverters and gensets do the same thing on a boat, they provide 120 volts AC for appliances that need that power. That said, they have different purposes. The inverter is best for supplying small or intermittent loads such as microwaves, coffee makers, etc. The genset is best for electric stoves, air conditioning, heat, etc.

The inverter requires no routine maintenance. No oil changes, impeller changes, etc.

You have a choice of one or the other, both or neither. It's a personal choice based on your boat and boating style. You don't get a medal for any of these choices.

 

[BandB]

If you're judging by posts on boating forums, remember, most people don't post about things they don't have trouble with.

But I'm not judging just by posts on forums, I'm factoring in the experiences of friends who own yacht management companies and captains and engineers I know. It's not all brands of combos, but there are some they see regularly that give a lot of problems.

 

[Art]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancora

Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.

The same thing can be said about engines.

Wes - Yea... for a sailboat. But this is not "Sail Forum"; sail boats are few and far between on Trawler Forum.

OTOH - An inverter can be deleted from equipment on power or sail boats!

 

[Simi 60]

Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.

I could use the same generalisation with anything
Masts fall down
Sails tear
Engines blow up
Toilets clog
Pumps fail
Etc etc.

 

[Art]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancora
Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.

I could use the same generalisation with anything
Masts fall down
Sails tear
Engines blow up
Toilets clog
Pumps fail
Etc etc.

However, Semi - ancora makes a point. In that: Items you mentioned are needed items to always have aboard and operational, depending on boat model/type. Whereas... a boat of any model/type can do without an inverter. Therefore, the inverter is an extra item, not a prime item.

 

[BandB]

However, Semi - ancora makes a point. In that: Items you mentioned are needed items to always have aboard and operational, depending on boat model/type. Whereas... a boat of any model/type can do without an inverter. Therefore, the inverter is an extra item, not a prime item.

I do just fine without a mast or sails.

From those I know, most don't have issues with the majority of inverters. Many do with some of the combo units. Some combos have few problems. It's not the principle of an inverter but the specific type and brand.

 

[Art]

I do just fine without a mast or sails.

QUOTE]

Ditto, o' power boat brother! Ditto!!

 

[AusCan]

I'll take the mast & sails over the inverter.

I use the sails almost every time I take the boat out.
I've haven't used my inverter for years. A friend wanted to charge their laptop last week but it had no output power. Oh well.

Neither are mandatory, but I certainly would miss the sails more.

To each his own.

 

[FlyWright]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancora

Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.




Wes - Yea... for a sailboat. But this is not "Sail Forum"; sail boats are few and far between on Trawler Forum.

OTOH - An inverter can be deleted from equipment on power or sail boats!

I'll take the mast & sails over the inverter.

I use the sails almost every time I take the boat out.
I've haven't used my inverter for years. A friend wanted to charge their laptop last week but it had no output power. Oh well.

Neither are mandatory, but I certainly would miss the sails more.

To each his own.

Let's face it....to me anyhow...

This is Trawler Forum, not some blow boater's forum. We all have an engine or two (or three) that we really depend upon to get us where we need to go. That's pretty much why we're here. That's not the same league as an inverter which many of us have added on to our minimally equipped (ME) boats throughout the years.

Some things are required for our participation. In my case, a pair of dinosaur burning diesels were on the MUST HAVE list. For others, that's a sail. But, if I have a main engine that I operate every few days or a generator to replace the missing electrons, who cares if you've donate a few AHs to the inefficiencies of an inverter? Overall, they're pretty reliable. Even the cheap ones typically work for a few years.

My ME boat fancies a 1000W Xantrex inverter that is about at the bottom of the inverter food chain. It serves me well alternately powering a microwave, heater, or electric skillet plus a fan and a fridge. They're not much more than $100 on Amazon and they last a few years. I can change one out in about 30 minutes on a bad day. I have a new replacement shrink-wrapped on the boat in standby, but this one keeps on ticking. (knock on teak)

 

[AusCan]

You missed my point, Al.

Yes, it is a trawler forum, - I get that.
The sails are my stabilizers. In unprotected water, I consider them mandatory. I's not a fun ride without them.
My minimally equipped boat has all 12V electrical appliances, so an inverter is pretty much useless, other than to a visitor with a hair dryer.

 

[O C Diver]

so an inverter is pretty much useless, other than to a visitor with a hair dryer.

A shapely visitor with a hair dryer would motivate me to keep my inverter in good working order.

Ted

 

[ranger58sb]

From those I know, most don't have issues with the majority of inverters. Many do with some of the combo units. Some combos have few problems. It's not the principle of an inverter but the specific type and brand.

From reading on line, there's one specific brand that seems to be thrown under the bus often, and IIRC usually in inverter/charger form.

Wouldn't surprise me if those failure reports have influenced many to assume all or many i/c brands have similar issues.

-Chris

 

[BandB]

From reading on line, there's one specific brand that seems to be thrown under the bus often, and IIRC usually in inverter/charger form.

Wouldn't surprise me if those failure reports have influenced many to assume all or many i/c brands have similar issues.

-Chris

Xantrex.

Then there's the issue of pure sine wave vs modified as well.

On the other hand I've seen a lot of positive written regarding Magnum.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Should'nt need a/c to charge a laptop, i-phone, i-pad ect. We charge them just like in a car. Have two cigarette lighter like jacks/receptacles at the helm and charge our i-pads. I leave my pad on all the time underway for nav via Navamatics.

Hair drier does need ac though. But I have'nt used one for years.

 

[psneeld]

Xantex led the pack...but just about every brand name has shown up on the web and around town with failures.


Remember...some of us frequent the RV world that uses the spectrum of charger inverters and possibly has many more out there being used.


If I had to guess, the most common failure is with the AC pass through circuitry....could be that many brands are stuck using the same parts and thus generally fall into the same failure mode.


Having had one fail me years ago...I have been gun shy to go back that way...but I have been watching the progression of inverter chargers for the better part of 15 years....both marine and RV.

 

[ranger58sb]

Then there's the issue of pure sine wave vs modified as well.

I've usually considered that a "shopping" problem, not actually a problem of any sort on the part of an inverter.

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

Ah, once again the broad brush of opinion catches everything in its path. Never had a problem with our combo.

Right, neither have I, including several that run 24x7x365. Heart Interface, Trace SW, Xantrex XW (commercial model, now schneider), Outback, and Mastervolt.

The only Inverter/Charger I have had trouble with was one of the Xantrex consumer pieces of crap that failed for pretty much everyone who owned one, from what I can tell.

I think the key to success with an Inverter/Charger is to get a good one, which unfortunately means spending some $$. I think it's an area where you get what you pay for.

 

[dhays]

We repaired this the other day . New connector and new wire .The problem, the repair and the fact that you guys were here to help gave us a better understanding and more confidence of our system . Thanks again everyone.

Glad it worked out. FWIW, I think repairing what you have was a good choice.

I had an inverter on my Catalina 36, ended up removing it. I don't have an inverter on my Catalina 400, never miss it. At anchor, we just don't use the microwave and my wife doesn't watch DVDs on the TV (a blessing actually). Everything else is 12v or propane.

On my NP43 I have the inverter/charger that was factory installed. I love having it and we use it all the time. When out cruising I usually run the generator a couple times a day, the rest of the time it is blessedly silent.

 

[twistedtree]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ancora
Never had an inverter, just another thing to go wrong.




However, Semi - ancora makes a point. In that: Items you mentioned are needed items to always have aboard and operational, depending on boat model/type. Whereas... a boat of any model/type can do without an inverter. Therefore, the inverter is an extra item, not a prime item.

But just as a counter example, our boat is set up assuming an inverter running 24x7. Refrigeration, ventilation (bathrooms and machinery space), fresh water pump, ER lighting are all 120V AC. The boat could have been set up differently, but considering how reliable inverter (good ones) are, it makes a lot of sense to just use AC for these appliances. In fact, our entire 120V service is inverter based. Switching from inverter to shore power or generator is automatic and seamless. Computers don't restart, TVs don't blink. It's transparent to all the loads. And charging then kicks in after a short delay. I wouldn't do it any other way, even on a smaller boat. And the setup ends up being more reliable, not less reliable. We have lost shore power a number of time for up to a day, and our boat just keeps ticking on. Obviously you need to not run for too long and run down the batteries, but 99% of the power interruptions become transparent. I remember a number of years ago when there was a total failure of the NE power grid lasting for a couple of days. I didn't even know about it until into the 2nd or 3rd day I happened to turn on the radio to catch the news. The same has happened with multiple ice storms that have taken out local power for days at t time.

But I agree there are lots of ways to set up a system poorly, with poor results. And plenty of crappy equipment out there. But when done well, the results are excellent.

 

[Art]

But just as a counter example, our boat is set up assuming an inverter running 24x7. Refrigeration, ventilation (bathrooms and machinery space), fresh water pump, ER lighting are all 120V AC. The boat could have been set up differently, but considering how reliable inverter (good ones) are, it makes a lot of sense to just use AC for these appliances. In fact, our entire 120V service is inverter based. Switching from inverter to shore power or generator is automatic and seamless. Computers don't restart, TVs don't blink. It's transparent to all the loads. And charging then kicks in after a short delay. I wouldn't do it any other way, even on a smaller boat. And the setup ends up being more reliable, not less reliable. We have lost shore power a number of time for up to a day, and our boat just keeps ticking on. Obviously you need to not run for too long and run down the batteries, but 99% of the power interruptions become transparent. I remember a number of years ago when there was a total failure of the NE power grid lasting for a couple of days. I didn't even know about it until into the 2nd or 3rd day I happened to turn on the radio to catch the news. The same has happened with multiple ice storms that have taken out local power for days at t time.

But I agree there are lots of ways to set up a system poorly, with poor results. And plenty of crappy equipment out there. But when done well, the results are excellent.

Good for you!!

 

[dhays]

Refrigeration, ventilation (bathrooms and machinery space), fresh water pump, ER lighting are all 120V AC. The boat could have been set up differently, but considering how reliable inverter (good ones) are, it makes a lot of sense to just use AC for these appliances.

Your size boat is certainly a different beast than many, and having everything run on 120v would make the electrical system simpler I would imagine. As I posted above, I love the inverter and use it a lot, but the downside as I see it is the 15-20% loss of available power. For me, that translates into needing 15-20% more battery capacity or running a generator that much longer. Neither is necessarily a problem, but if I had 120v refrigeration, as well as a fully electric galley, I would need to do so.

However, the downside for me is that some things won't run on the inverter, by design. Hot water for example. I still want to add more 12v to my boat to avoid that 15-20% loss. Electronic device charging is one. When I have a boat full, everyone has devices they want to charge. I want to add more 12v USB outlets. The other is my wife's c-pap. I want to get a 12v power outlet in the cabin and a C-pap that will run on the 12v so we don't have to invert that power overnight.

I think the biggest 120v power draw on the boat is actually the stereo system. The PO liked his music and had a huge stereo with full surround sound (including a large sub-woofer). We listen to music a LOT, which means that we have this constant rather large power draw. OTOH, it cuts down on the heat required to warm up the saloon. I should add a 12v fan to that stereo cabinet and it would be like my hydronic heater.