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Old 09-08-2018, 06:21 AM   #41
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I only have one alternator so my procedure would be to wake up in the morning, check the batteries, make coffee (press) and when its time to pull the anchor i would switch it from the house bank to the start bank, start the motors, pull anchor, then switch it to house bank while i'm under way to charge up the house bank with the alternator.

I'd have guessed a Carver 370 Voyager would have twin engines? Two alternators?

-Chris
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:03 AM   #42
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I'd have guessed a Carver 370 Voyager would have twin engines? Two alternators?

-Chris
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I also have gas Crusader 454 XL engines
That was my impression from the first post quoted above. Not sure why there is only one alternator but 2 engines.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:35 AM   #43
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You're right on the alternators, not sure why I thought there was only one. I'll see how they are wired today.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:37 AM   #44
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I like the Century Plastics battery boxes. Here is one for 4 x 6v GC2
https://allbatterysalesandservice.co...-g/category/3/
Thats the one I tried to link to earlier. With those I could fit 8 GC batteries plus a separate start battery. I'm going to start with the 4 GC batteries and if I want more power I can purchase those and add them in without undoing too much work.

Thanks!
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:51 AM   #45
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"It should be fed directly (fused) from the alternator and the regulator sense lead (if externally regulated) should monitor the largest bank"

A fuse in an alt output is a big danger.

It might help in a short to not have a fire BUT anytime the working alt is disconnected from a load , it will usually blow the output diodes.

These are not expensive but a PIA to swop out underway.

Mr. FF makes a great point, one I overlooked. The case could be made that the alternator is self-limiting, so a fuse isn't really necessary. That doesn't alter the fact that the feed wire from the alternator should probably be fused at the battery/buss connection point to protect the wire in the event of a short. The answer there would be a fuse that would protect the conductor in the event of a dead short, but not have the potential for a nuisance trip- perhaps twice the amp output of the alternator. In that scenario a diode failure might be acceptable collateral damage.


If the alternator feed wire is replaced, it makes sense to go big on that conductor. Perhaps more capacity in the future, insuring no voltage drop. Cost difference would be minimal with no impact on labor.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:12 AM   #46
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Mr. FF makes a great point, one I overlooked. The case could be made that the alternator is self-limiting, so a fuse isn't really necessary. That doesn't alter the fact that the feed wire from the alternator should probably be fused at the battery/buss connection point to protect the wire in the event of a short. The answer there would be a fuse that would protect the conductor in the event of a dead short, but not have the potential for a nuisance trip- perhaps twice the amp output of the alternator. In that scenario a diode failure might be acceptable collateral damage.


If the alternator feed wire is replaced, it makes sense to go big on that conductor. Perhaps more capacity in the future, insuring no voltage drop. Cost difference would be minimal with no impact on labor.
Bingo!

The fuse protects from a short on the alternator wire, e.g. the wire falls off the alternator and shorts on the engine. My large cable from the alternator to the battery can carry lots of juice and the fuse protects from a possible electrical fire. If the fuse fails and causes the diode to blow, then that can be repaired.

I'd rather repair an alternator than fight a fire.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:30 PM   #47
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Even though i can always start the generator and then start the mains? that does take a while, which could be an issue if i'm dragging or something. Any other reason?
That isn't reason enough?
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:26 PM   #48
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I read most posts... lotsa good - batt ways. Here's my 5 cents!

House Bank = 4 g31 deep cycle wet la batts in parallel [they also start my twins] - charged by 60 amp professional mariner [gen set or shore power], and, starboard engine.

1 g24 starter wet la batt for gen set, forward head and windlass - charged by solar trickle, and, 1.25 amp trickle charger off 120 v from gen set or shore power.

1 isolated g24 starter wet la batt for any emergency that may happen - charged by 1.25 amp trickle charger off 120 v from gen set or shore power.

House Bank 31's just reached 9 years - they're still kicking... but run down too soon now. Planning to put in 4 new ones quite soon.

Gen set / front head / windless g24 batt 2 yrs. old. Isolated emergency g24 batt 1.5 yrs old.

Also have a g24 starter batt in tow behind runabout... it's about 1 yr .old.

All batts are from Batteries Plus; they're made by East Penn. Good service good prices.

Note: I've found that dual purpose [starter/deep cycle] batts wear out way too quickly.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:05 AM   #49
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“ only have one alternator so my procedure would be to wake up in the morning, check the batteries, make coffee (press) and when its time to pull the anchor i would switch it from the house bank to the start bank, start the motors, pull anchor, then switch it to house bank while i'm under way to charge up the house bank with the alternator. “

Even more simple......

Keeping the start bank and the house bank separate and having an ACR would do this for you. (Except making the coffee)
Exactly!! This is the process on 'Slo~Belle' Upon engine start, the ACR switch is made and the start battery is joined with the house battery for charging purpose while underway. On shore power or shutdown, the ACR isolates the start battery. The anchor winch is tied to the start battery for the same . the engine is running while the anchor is being retrieved.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:09 AM   #50
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That isn't reason enough?
yes, yes it is.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:13 AM   #51
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Exactly!! This is the process on 'Slo~Belle' Upon engine start, the ACR switch is made and the start battery is joined with the house battery for charging purpose while underway. On shore power or shutdown, the ACR isolates the start battery. The anchor winch is tied to the start battery for the same . the engine is running while the anchor is being retrieved.
While I would have preferred a solution that makes me coffee as well, this certainly sounds the best.

I installed the 4 GC batteries yesterday and got the Victron 700 working (i believe) I kept the 2 group 27 start batteries as dedicated starters/windlass power and will be hooking up an ACR this weekend to combine them for charging.

Thanks all for the helpful ideas, input and patience with a newbie!
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:58 PM   #52
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Not sure one will have anything to do with the other. The ACR just charges the house bank 1st and then moves to the start bank when the house is charged. No need to touch the combiner switch.

Maybe someone else can add something here?

My understanding is different. From Blueseas website Q&A:

“An ACR senses when the voltage of either of the batteries rises to a level indicating that a charge source is active (13.0V for 2 minutes). The ACR′s contacts then connect and the ACR applies the charge to both batteries. If the voltage on both of the batteries subsequently drops to 12.75V for 30 seconds, the ACR will disconnect, isolating the batteries.”

https://www.bluesea.com/products/761...4V_DC_120A/FAQ

So it house bank isn’t charged first, and then the start bank. Only that the batteries are combined when the charge source reaches 13.0 V.

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Old 09-11-2018, 01:24 PM   #53
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"Even more simple......

Keeping the start bank and the house bank separate and having an ACR would do this for you. "
Simpler yet,(and less costly)

The simplest of all is an RV solenoid , about $17. at the camper store , Plus about $20 for a Cole Hersee start switch with an ACC terminal.

On starting the key operates the starter from the start batt and the ACC terminal is not powered.

This saves anything that might be damaged by a stuck starter , 150V or more is much un-fun for many boat goodies.

The start engine alt is also powered from the ACC terminal so the starting load does not include the alt. attempting to make juice.

After starting the ACC terminal on the key is powered so the start batt is merged with the house bat by the RV relay.

No hassle as the batts with the lowest voltage (usually the house) gets the big charge .
Eventually all will have the same voltage .

On shut down the key removes the power from the ACC terminal so the house system is now isolated from the start.

So simple there is no shut down check list , just like your car.

The price is right and best of all should there be a relay failure its easy to find and a few seconds to bypass.


KISS!
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:05 PM   #54
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Start vs. House Bank

We had a full house bank put in in '16.

It consists of 6-L16 6V AGM batteries. They are wired in series & parallel.

The 2-4D wet cells engine batteries were just replaced at the beginning of this season with 2-4D AGM's.

Charging is handled 2 ways.

We have an SW3012 Xantrex charger/inverter connected to the house bank.

Balmar 125A alternators, on each engine, are connected to Balmar regulators, which are connected to Duo-chargers which are connected to something called a centerfielder.

When we are running the alternators produce power which ultimately finds it's way to the centerfielder. That decides where the power goes, house or engine bank and how much.

When we are on shore power the Xantrex charges the house bank as power is passed thru to the house.

Good or Bad, if we lose shore power the boat instantly switches to battery power. This has happened on a few occasions, we didn't realize we were on battery. I've got to put in a red light, or some way to know, if we switch from shore power to battery.

We also had installed when all this equipment was going in a dual ELCI and Galvanic Isolator.

We find that this setup works very well and while we are on the Loop it provides power for 2-3 days while on a wall or anchoring.

Future plans include investigation of a fuel cell and or solar cells.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:29 PM   #55
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The simplest of all is an RV solenoid , about $17. at the camper store , Plus about $20 for a Cole Hersee start switch with an ACC terminal.
How does this system protect the system from a battery which shorts out or otherwise dies in service. Seems you could run all day and find all your batteries are similarly drained because there is no low voltage cutout.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:46 PM   #56
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We have an SW3012 Xantrex charger/inverter connected to the house bank.

Balmar 125A alternators, on each engine, are connected to Balmar regulators, which are connected to Duo-chargers which are connected to something called a centerfielder.

When we are running the alternators produce power which ultimately finds it's way to the centerfielder. That decides where the power goes, house or engine bank and how much.

When we are on shore power the Xantrex charges the house bank as power is passed thru to the house.

Good or Bad, if we lose shore power the boat instantly switches to battery power. This has happened on a few occasions, we didn't realize we were on battery. I've got to put in a red light, or some way to know, if we switch from shore power to battery.

I'm a bit confused by the use of the alternator regulators, Duo-Chargers, and the Centerfielder. Generally, the Duo-charger is connected between the house bank and the start batteries. The regulated alternator usually then feeds the house bank directly. The Centerfielder sounds interesting. I've never heard of it.


Your charger inverter likely has a setting where it will shut off the inverter if the battery voltage drops to given level. That can protect you from draining the battery bank too low with the inverter. What you describe happened to me for the first time a couple weeks ago and I didn't know it until the inverter cut out due to the battery voltage hitting that low-bat cut off.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:18 PM   #57
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How does this system protect the system from a battery which shorts out or otherwise dies in service. Seems you could run all day and find all your batteries are similarly drained because there is no low voltage cutout.
I have something similar. A 90 amp continuous duty relay, 150 surge. Activates when port engine ignition turns on, AND I have the manual switch set to on.
When I turn off port engine, OR flip off manual switch, the relay disconnects.
To wire it up, I used a 4 gauge wire, runs from start bank to relay then to house bank. Relay control wire comes from port motor ignition, to manual switch, to combiner relay then to ground.

I have noticed combining when running both alternators share the load. They are 12SI one wire design.

Also doing it this way, you get a boost from the house when you start your engines. Like a jump start, so less wear on the start bank. Just start port engine first, or turn on it's ignition, then start the starboard engine.

With the manual switch, you can force a disconnect to the system.

These relays are real cheap on Amazon. 150 amp continuous, 300 amp surge!

https://www.amazon.com/CONTINUOUS-SO...t_sims?ie=UTF8
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