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Old 08-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #1
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Solid copper wire, only place suitable on the boat

Is for bonding wires.
I can testify to this on my really old boat built in 1970, they used solid copper but insulated wire with crimped on lugs, and every bit of it is in perfect shape. None of it broke. Its better than multi-strand which will wick water down the stranding causing eventual wire destruction and failure. And regarding that wicking every-time it re wets and then dries, the salt concentration increases, and it can never rinse away.

https://www.boats.com/reviews/un-ins...n-my-new-boat/

So yes, its better to use solid core for bonding underwater metals.
The argument about vibration of the hull cracking the copper apart, I just saw none of that anywhere.

In my boat the wire laid against the hull, formed against stringers or any other bits and pieces to follow the interior shapes and terminated to large long bronze square bar running much of the length of boat on the inner keel, to which they are bolted with crimped on terminals. Other ends of the solid core wire with crimped large ring terminals fit under the nuts on the bronze bolts holding struts etc to the hull. And the wire never secured anywhere along its length.
And some of that bonding wire has laid under salty bilge water for many decades.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:47 PM   #2
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Good for you !
I can't imagine why Det Norske Veritas, CE, ABS, Lloyds, Transport Canada, BoatUS, ABCY and every marine underwriter disagree.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:26 AM   #3
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Very low currents in bonding usually are best carried by pure copper sheeting , 2-6 inches wide placed in the bilge.

It is one piece bent to conform to the bottom and up and over stringers .

The huge surface area works great with tiny current
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #4
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From a guy who has knowledge in those arenas....while specific...it does show that uninsulated and solid wire isn't ALWAYS specifically prohibited...thus why it was and still seen on boats. Even by organizations that seemingly would be as stringent as ABYC.

Here are the DNV/GL (Det Norske Veritas/Germanische Lloyds)

rules:

"F.2.3 The conductors of movable wires shall be finely stranded.
The conductors of permanently laid cables and wires shall be made of stranded copper conductors
(class 2) or flexible stranded copper conductors (class 5).
Solid conductors up to 4 mm2 in cross-section are permitted for final subcircuits of room lighting and
space heating systems in the accommodation and for special cables of TV and multimedia applications."


4mm2 is 12 AWG wire. All members of the International Association of Class Societies (IACS) accept the rules of each member.

In the matter of the bonding wire, it is a bonding wire, it counts as a grounding strap and does not even have to be insulated. It just has to be metal and conductive.


Lloyds Rules for Classification and Construction
VI Additional Rules and Guidelines:



4.7.2 Ships with a non-metallic hull
For the protection of the metallic appendages, anodes
applied to the hull shall be conductively connected
(using either welding straps or cables) with the parts to
be protected, whereby in each case care shall be taken
to ensure a metallically conducting connection.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
Very low currents in bonding usually are best carried by pure copper sheeting , 2-6 inches wide placed in the bilge.

It is one piece bent to conform to the bottom and up and over stringers .

The huge surface area works great with tiny current
A solid copper band would also work routing lightning strikes down into the water more safely maybe without vaporizing. Bonding and lightning in one setup.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:46 AM   #6
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City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
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Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
From a guy who has knowledge in those arenas....while specific...it does show that uninsulated and solid wire isn't ALWAYS specifically prohibited...thus why it was and still seen on boats. Even by organizations that seemingly would be as stringent as ABYC.

Here are the DNV/GL (Det Norske Veritas/Germanische Lloyds)

rules:

"F.2.3 The conductors of movable wires shall be finely stranded.
The conductors of permanently laid cables and wires shall be made of stranded copper conductors
(class 2) or flexible stranded copper conductors (class 5).
Solid conductors up to 4 mm2 in cross-section are permitted for final subcircuits of room lighting and
space heating systems in the accommodation and for special cables of TV and multimedia applications."


4mm2 is 12 AWG wire. All members of the International Association of Class Societies (IACS) accept the rules of each member.

In the matter of the bonding wire, it is a bonding wire, it counts as a grounding strap and does not even have to be insulated. It just has to be metal and conductive.


Lloyds Rules for Classification and Construction
VI Additional Rules and Guidelines:



4.7.2 Ships with a non-metallic hull
For the protection of the metallic appendages, anodes
applied to the hull shall be conductively connected
(using either welding straps or cables) with the parts to
be protected, whereby in each case care shall be taken
to ensure a metallically conducting connection.
That is interesting about electric heating. One of my wall electric heaters was wired with solid copper wiring, 12 gauge, 50 years ago and still works, so another reason for me not to change it out. And my Princess stove also used solid copper wire, 10 gauge.

It has certainly been safe all those decades like that.

For high current devices, maybe safer than stranded, since a break would be a definite power off situation, but a partial break as in individual strands breaking would lower the ampacity capability at that connection, and maybe overheat and start a fire if fine stranded wire was used for many decades, unexpected stuff happens over long periods of time.

Solid copper wiring, an attached end breaks off == loss of power to device, no overheating due to zero wire strand left to bear the load.

Multi Strand copper wiring, an attached end partially breaks, less remaining strands to carry the load, overheat certain and possible fire is result.
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