timjet
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Solder or Crimp
- Thread starter timjet
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
OP
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timjet
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Where can I get a crimping tool for #2 AWG. Looking for one locally.
High Wire
Guru
I bought one of these from GenuineDealz. Great range of lug sizes.
Heavy Duty Crimping Tool for Battery Lugs & Terminals 6 AWG - 250 MCM Genuinedealz.com
~$250
If you think you will do other large wiring jobs, it's worth it.
We used to use a hammer style crimper and it was hard work to make the job decent quality.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. t. I was going to suggest crimp AND solder but upon reflection, a good crimp should do fine. Addition of a conductive anti-corrosive paste/grease before crimping may be an advantage as well.
Mr. t. I was going to suggest crimp AND solder but upon reflection, a good crimp should do fine. Addition of a conductive anti-corrosive paste/grease before crimping may be an advantage as well.
Cathy and David
Veteran Member
Crimp
That lug is designed for a mechanical crimp. Go to Home Depot and buy a bottle of NOLOX, which is an electrical anti oxidant to put on wire prior to crimp. They sell it in the electrical department. Make sure the wire is stripped to no more than what bare wire can fit into the lug. Be careful when stripping the wire to make sure you do not damage the outer wire strands. I use a box knife for wire this size to ensure that I just cut the insulation and do not cut into the wire. Not so sure about the heat shrink wrap as it makes corrosion and oxidation hard to see and correct if it develops.
That lug is designed for a mechanical crimp. Go to Home Depot and buy a bottle of NOLOX, which is an electrical anti oxidant to put on wire prior to crimp. They sell it in the electrical department. Make sure the wire is stripped to no more than what bare wire can fit into the lug. Be careful when stripping the wire to make sure you do not damage the outer wire strands. I use a box knife for wire this size to ensure that I just cut the insulation and do not cut into the wire. Not so sure about the heat shrink wrap as it makes corrosion and oxidation hard to see and correct if it develops.
OP
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timjet
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Don't want to spend $250 for 14 crimps, maybe I can find a local guy that can do it.
jukesy
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I,m a fan of a good soldered joint myself
OP
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timjet
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Called my mechanic, he's going to let me use his.
caltexflanc
Guru
If you have one nearby, a good battery or alternator shop can make them up for you. Many NAPA stores provide this service too. You can bring your own lugs and heat shrink if you already have them.
The ABYC rules on soldering are:
"11.16.3.7. Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided."
I used the little drop-in solder pellets once for a cable I did not have a crimper for and which could not be pulled out easily to take to a shop. Not to mention it was in a place where it would have been almost impossible to get the right sized crimper in there.
Search results for: 'solder pellets' Genuinedealz.com
Worked out fine as I had plenty of slack and clamps to meet the ABYC requirement. Only did this as a last resort though.
The ABYC rules on soldering are:
"11.16.3.7. Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided."
I used the little drop-in solder pellets once for a cable I did not have a crimper for and which could not be pulled out easily to take to a shop. Not to mention it was in a place where it would have been almost impossible to get the right sized crimper in there.
Search results for: 'solder pellets' Genuinedealz.com
Worked out fine as I had plenty of slack and clamps to meet the ABYC requirement. Only did this as a last resort though.
Scary
Guru
That is going to leave you with what is called a "cold solder joint". It looks like it's soldered but it's not because you moved the metal before the solder solidified.
If you properly crimp a connection, there is no need to also solder it and in fact, if it's properly crimped, the joint is air tight and there's no place for solder to flow.
If you think you need to do both, crimp it, then add solder. It really doesn't add anything though.
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
I bought a crimp tool for about 35bucks that you use a hammer to operate. Nice for getting in tight areas. Search for crimp tool + hammer and you should find it. I have used it exclusively for thousands of large crimps with no problems. For little ones (10ga and under) I use the little hand held crimpers.
If you can't find one, I can post a photo of it and get mfr info.
I heat shrink large crimps (batt cables, thruster, charger, bonding, etc), but don't bother with little ones.
I don't bother soldering, like others posted it makes the joint rigid.
Tinned marine wire and marine lugs seems to be plenty corrosion resistant unless actually getting wet.
If you can't find one, I can post a photo of it and get mfr info.
I heat shrink large crimps (batt cables, thruster, charger, bonding, etc), but don't bother with little ones.
I don't bother soldering, like others posted it makes the joint rigid.
Tinned marine wire and marine lugs seems to be plenty corrosion resistant unless actually getting wet.
jwnall
Moderator Emeritus
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. rw. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought a cold solder joint occurred when the pieces were moved during or in the latter stages of solidification.
Mr. rw. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought a cold solder joint occurred when the pieces were moved during or in the latter stages of solidification.
Last edited:
jleonard
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Yes and if I understand English that is what he said he was doing.
Forkliftt
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I install a lot of crimp/ or solder ends. If soldering I strip the cable, test fit for depth in battery clamp, then use vice grips to hold the clamp with the opening facing up. Slip the heat shrink on the wire (if you prefer), then I heat the clamp near the bottom of the pocket and melt a couple of inches of 1/8 rosin core solder (pellets are too expensive for my budget) into the opening. Slip the cable into the opening till it bottoms out- you only get one try!
A couple of notes, I always hammer my solder roll closed on the end, and I actually use an acetylene/ oxy torch like you see plumbers use. But I'm sure the small bottle torches would be fine, it would just take a little longer to get the solder to "boil".
1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Lehman 135 Twins
A couple of notes, I always hammer my solder roll closed on the end, and I actually use an acetylene/ oxy torch like you see plumbers use. But I'm sure the small bottle torches would be fine, it would just take a little longer to get the solder to "boil".
1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Lehman 135 Twins
I'm sorry but that's pretty poor practice. Dropping a cold cable into molten solder will not create a soldered joint. Hammering a soldered joint will break any connection that was actually soldered.
Look on the Internet for soldering information and how to do it correctly.
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
That one looks very similar to the one I have. It works very well.
In tight areas it is not really necessary to set it on a hard surface. You can hold it in one hand while whacking with hammer in the other. There is enough mass in the body to act as an anvil. A little tricky, but do-able.
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Forkliftt
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Rwidman, I respectfully disagree
. I have used this practice for well over 20 years- professionally, and all of the cables on Patricia Louise are assembled this way. I now own the big buck crimpers, but have never had a solder "failure". Does this mean I win the debate !!
1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Lehman 135 Twins
. I have used this practice for well over 20 years- professionally, and all of the cables on Patricia Louise are assembled this way. I now own the big buck crimpers, but have never had a solder "failure". Does this mean I win the debate !!1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Lehman 135 Twins
caltexflanc
Guru
In my one exception to crimping, there was no way to use a hammer crimper. Never been comfortable with those vs a proper ratchet or hydraulic unit.
Back in the day, I had a division of shops that installed automotive and small boat (ski and wake rider types) entertainment systems, some quite complex, requiring new batteries, alternators, capacitors etc etc. Yes, the very ones that are so irritating. There was usually some back and forth among the techs about crimp vs. solder vs. both. A very experienced guy took over tech training and QC. After doing a bunch of testing and reviewing warranty repairs (we had a life time warranty on the installation work), no more soldering terminals or connectors. Every one got taught how to do a proper crimp. It takes practice, even with a good ratchet; I took the class myself and I was easily the worst student.
Back in the day, I had a division of shops that installed automotive and small boat (ski and wake rider types) entertainment systems, some quite complex, requiring new batteries, alternators, capacitors etc etc. Yes, the very ones that are so irritating. There was usually some back and forth among the techs about crimp vs. solder vs. both. A very experienced guy took over tech training and QC. After doing a bunch of testing and reviewing warranty repairs (we had a life time warranty on the installation work), no more soldering terminals or connectors. Every one got taught how to do a proper crimp. It takes practice, even with a good ratchet; I took the class myself and I was easily the worst student.
Vashon_Trawler
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I'm a ham radio operator and have been soldering for decades--I also restore vintage transmitters/receivers. A cold joint occurs when there is not enough heat applied to the part; and yes, it can also occur when the part is moved during soldering. Solder should flow nicely and have a shiny not dull grey and mottled appearance. It also important to use the correct solder and solder diameter.
The only soldering on my boat is when I am preparing PL-259 UHF connectors for my marine VHF or HF transceiver--all other connections are crimp only.
jukesy
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No offence to anyone. But you can debate this one all you want. Here is what "I" know. On every boat I have built, repaired and owned. Both commercial and recreational over many years. I have always soldered my joints and NEVER had a failure. I don't care what ABYC says or any other junk science that exists on the net. I know what has worked and will continue to work long after I'm gone.
I'd crimp it with the proper crimpers, then flow solder into the lug for an excellent, long lasting connection.
Then again, you could just crimp it.
The soldering, if done improperly, can cause melting of the insulator, so quick application of heat with a propane torch while using a wet rag wrapped around the insulation is best. The solder can also wick up the overheated wire making a brittle area near the lug that won't flex without cracking.
Crimping and an application of grease would be good enough. There isn't a single right answer here. There rarely is.
I'm a retired Weapons control systems mechanic (USAF) F4C, D aircraft.
Trying to be helpful.
Then again, you could just crimp it.
The soldering, if done improperly, can cause melting of the insulator, so quick application of heat with a propane torch while using a wet rag wrapped around the insulation is best. The solder can also wick up the overheated wire making a brittle area near the lug that won't flex without cracking.
Crimping and an application of grease would be good enough. There isn't a single right answer here. There rarely is.
I'm a retired Weapons control systems mechanic (USAF) F4C, D aircraft.
Trying to be helpful.
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