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Old 04-16-2014, 11:17 AM   #21
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Greetings,
Mr. rw. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought a cold solder joint occurred when the pieces were moved during or in the latter stages of solidification.
Yes and if I understand English that is what he said he was doing.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:24 AM   #22
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I install a lot of crimp/ or solder ends. If soldering I strip the cable, test fit for depth in battery clamp, then use vice grips to hold the clamp with the opening facing up. Slip the heat shrink on the wire (if you prefer), then I heat the clamp near the bottom of the pocket and melt a couple of inches of 1/8 rosin core solder (pellets are too expensive for my budget) into the opening. Slip the cable into the opening till it bottoms out- you only get one try!
A couple of notes, I always hammer my solder roll closed on the end, and I actually use an acetylene/ oxy torch like you see plumbers use. But I'm sure the small bottle torches would be fine, it would just take a little longer to get the solder to "boil".


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Old 04-16-2014, 11:34 AM   #23
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When I installed the new inverter/charger, I drilled a small hole, after crimping and then filled the void with solder, then finished with heat shrink. Here's the 4/0 negative from the inverter/charger with the 2/0 battery interconnects.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:35 AM   #24
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I install a lot of crimp/ or solder ends. If soldering I strip the cable, test fit for depth in battery clamp, then use vice grips to hold the clamp with the opening facing up. Slip the heat shrink on the wire (if you prefer), then I heat the clamp near the bottom of the pocket and melt a couple of inches of 1/8 rosin core solder (pellets are too expensive for my budget) into the opening. Slip the cable into the opening till it bottoms out- you only get one try!
A couple of notes, I always hammer my solder roll closed on the end, and I actually use an acetylene/ oxy torch like you see plumbers use. But I'm sure the small bottle torches would be fine, it would just take a little longer to get the solder to "boil".


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I'm sorry but that's pretty poor practice. Dropping a cold cable into molten solder will not create a soldered joint. Hammering a soldered joint will break any connection that was actually soldered.

Look on the Internet for soldering information and how to do it correctly.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:37 AM   #25
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One on Amazon for about $17 or so.
NOCO D800 Blue Hammer Indent Crimping Tool
That one looks very similar to the one I have. It works very well.

In tight areas it is not really necessary to set it on a hard surface. You can hold it in one hand while whacking with hammer in the other. There is enough mass in the body to act as an anvil. A little tricky, but do-able.
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:39 AM   #26
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Rwidman, I respectfully disagree. I have used this practice for well over 20 years- professionally, and all of the cables on Patricia Louise are assembled this way. I now own the big buck crimpers, but have never had a solder "failure". Does this mean I win the debate !!


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Old 04-16-2014, 12:08 PM   #27
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In my one exception to crimping, there was no way to use a hammer crimper. Never been comfortable with those vs a proper ratchet or hydraulic unit.

Back in the day, I had a division of shops that installed automotive and small boat (ski and wake rider types) entertainment systems, some quite complex, requiring new batteries, alternators, capacitors etc etc. Yes, the very ones that are so irritating. There was usually some back and forth among the techs about crimp vs. solder vs. both. A very experienced guy took over tech training and QC. After doing a bunch of testing and reviewing warranty repairs (we had a life time warranty on the installation work), no more soldering terminals or connectors. Every one got taught how to do a proper crimp. It takes practice, even with a good ratchet; I took the class myself and I was easily the worst student.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. rw. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought a cold solder joint occurred when the pieces were moved during or in the latter stages of solidification.
I'm a ham radio operator and have been soldering for decades--I also restore vintage transmitters/receivers. A cold joint occurs when there is not enough heat applied to the part; and yes, it can also occur when the part is moved during soldering. Solder should flow nicely and have a shiny not dull grey and mottled appearance. It also important to use the correct solder and solder diameter.

The only soldering on my boat is when I am preparing PL-259 UHF connectors for my marine VHF or HF transceiver--all other connections are crimp only.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:19 PM   #29
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No offence to anyone. But you can debate this one all you want. Here is what "I" know. On every boat I have built, repaired and owned. Both commercial and recreational over many years. I have always soldered my joints and NEVER had a failure. I don't care what ABYC says or any other junk science that exists on the net. I know what has worked and will continue to work long after I'm gone.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:12 PM   #30
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I'd crimp it with the proper crimpers, then flow solder into the lug for an excellent, long lasting connection.
Then again, you could just crimp it.
The soldering, if done improperly, can cause melting of the insulator, so quick application of heat with a propane torch while using a wet rag wrapped around the insulation is best. The solder can also wick up the overheated wire making a brittle area near the lug that won't flex without cracking.
Crimping and an application of grease would be good enough. There isn't a single right answer here. There rarely is.
I'm a retired Weapons control systems mechanic (USAF) F4C, D aircraft.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:18 PM   #31
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...There isn't a single right answer here. There rarely is...
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:25 AM   #32
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Nicely done
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:08 AM   #33
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After seeing this write-up, that's the crimping tool I decided to go with. $250, but I was redoing my entire DC system, so I saw the value in it. It makes amazing crimps (with the correct lugs). Any TF member in the NC area that want to borrow it, I would gladly let you.

Still, on-topic, I have heard people the do use solder to fill lugs post-crimp. I won't. A good crimp doesn't need it.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:12 PM   #34
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I think that methods of attaching lugs to heavy cables has been fairly well covered.

A plug here (pun intended) for the use of heat-shrink/glue type terminals and butt-joints on lighter wires - say AWG #10 and smaller. In addition to sealing out moisture, the heat-shrink part provides a useful mechanical connection between wire and terminal. IMHO this significantly reduces the possibility of a wire pulling out of its crimp or breaking due flexure at the crimped joint.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:39 AM   #35
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CRIMP.
Then if you still want to solder, do it after but it shouldn't be neccesary.
I have made crimps with one of the hammer tools quite successfully.
BUT
you need a small sledge of about 3 pounds and the crimper must be on something solid or it will simply bounce producing a poor crimp and maybe flinging the partly collapsed and now useless lug somewhere.

I have a steel plate of about 10 lb that seems to be ok but I still prefer to find some heavy steel work on the docks or take it up to land.

You will hear the tone change when the crimp is solid.

Otherwise use a decent crimper from a battery shop. My local chandler has one of the FTX crimpers for loan if you buy the lugs and wire from him.

I have a H.D.crimper but may also borrow the chandlers crimper when I make some long cables which have to be threaded into place before terminating.
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:45 AM   #36
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The problem with crimping is the pressure must be high enough to cold flow the solder.

This is the electrical part of the requirement , not the mechanical.

Normally a good pro (expen$ive) tool is required.

I prefer to use BOTH , so I do solder the terminal ends after crimping..

The goal is to melt the solder IN the fitting , but not up that nice pricy flexible tinned wire.

My method is a BIG copper roofing iron (its really copper) well heated with a torch.

Think of it as a BTU battery that can deliver 5 min of torch heating in seconds of contact.

Practice on one fitting ,contact just enough time to melt a thin solder wire held at the insertion end .

Then cut it open and see if solder is solid in the fitting is solid , and the cable still flexible outside the fitting.

It is usually easiest to do all the soldering at one time after everything is made up to size.

Then use the 3X shrink tubing (color code counts) to finish.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:59 PM   #37
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I,m a fan of a good soldered joint myselfAttachment 29119Attachment 29120Attachment 29121
Jukes, that looks awesome. What is your method of removing the flux from inside the stranded wire above the solder joint?? Do you soak the cable in hot water after you solder the cables? Or is there a better method?
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:22 PM   #38
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Thanks Bligh. Yeah pretty much. I have a squirt bottle of hot soapy water and then a blast of air from the compressor before I wrap them in coloured electrical tape.
Hope your enjoying you NT.

Cheers
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:46 PM   #39
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Klein Tools

Here is a link to a crimper made by Klein Tools the gold standard for electrical trade tooling. It is good for lugs up to 4/0 in size.

KLEIN TOOLS Battery Terminal Crimper,6-4/0 AWG - Cable and Wire Crimping Tools - 25D147|2006 - Grainger Industrial Supply
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:19 PM   #40
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Have to Weigh In

I have to add my 2 cents to the debate. A mechanical crimp performed with a proper tool is a much more effective bond to the lug than a soldered joint. In my 30+ years in the trade I performed very few soldered joints and they were only because the electrical device required it. They were 60A and above special plugs where the only choice was a soldered joint. All other joints were with high pressure crimp tools that were either hydraulic or old fashioned hand operated. There are too many variables that need to be perfect to achieve a reliable soldered joint.
As far as heat shrink if it makes you feel better go for it but it will not prevent corrosion. Have you ever seen a corroded battery cable where the insulation looks perfect but the wire is corroded 2' past the lug. The best protection against corrosion and oxidation is Nolox applied to the wire before the crimp.
The lugs that I have seen pictured on the thread are mechanical crimp lugs. A lug intended for a soldered joint will be oversized to the wire gauge so that you get a good bond and complete solder flow through the wire strands.
Just my 2 cents to the discussion.
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