Smoke in the ER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[O C Diver]

NOt a problem! First, I have no desire to run a Crusader or a pair of Crusader 454's to charge my batteries. Next has to do with using a physically large alternator/s required to produce large a output current in a confined bilge for hours without self destructing due to copper's positive temperature coefficient. And of course we do have an old Kohler 4.5KW generator that I have managed to ready on demand..........it gets very little use.

And best of all, I have about 1200 watts (4 each 290 watt) solar panels that for the last year or so when I installed them successfully keep my 860 amp hr battery bank charged. Charged even with our 8.3cuft refrigerator featuring self defrost, two tv's and what nots consuming power at leisure.

Soooo----IF one has space for solar, I suggest they consider it over an alternator of any kind.

Ok, so you're Crusader 454s are gas motors? Wouldn't know if these alternators were approved for gas engines.

Have no idea what you're talking about with " copper's positive temperature coefficient". There are literally tens of thousands of commercial boats over the last hundred years with large high output alternator. Don't know if you are referring to gas powered boats. If the engine room temperature is kept within the engine manufacturer's specifications, these alternators will work continuously where the Balmars require load limiting based on alternator temperature.

The purpose of the large alternator is to recharge your bank and supply 12 VDC while you're underway, not in place of a generator while sitting at anchor.

Nothing wrong with solar. I find that being underway every other or third day completely recharges my battery bank without the need for generator time or solar.

Ted

 

[BIG CAT]

glad everything worked out. that alternator is probably toast. even if it had the best class h insulation its only good for 150*c rise. a insulation resistance test would confirm it but even then i would be leery about running it. if its repairable i would keep it as a spare at most.

 

[BDofMSP]

2. My nearly free repurposed cameras in the ER confirmed the smoke event early without the need to enter the ER. I always wondered if smoke was easily seen on an ER camera. I wonder why more skippers don't install them! They are not that expensive considering the situational awareness they provide.

Codger,
Just curious. Is there lighting in the ER to provide that picture, or is that a dark view? If lit, do you have a switch at the helm for that or do you just leave them on underway?

BD

 

[wkearney99]

https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4516

Of course there's a school bus fleet forum online. It never ceases to amaze me how many communities are out there online. Great to find overlap between them.

 

[Wayfarer]

Of course there's a school bus fleet forum online. It never ceases to amaze me how many communities are out there online. Great to find overlap between them.

Here's a thriving community of flashlight enthusiasts! There really is something for everyone on the internet.

Thread drift alert!

 

[wkearney99]

The flashlight thing I knew about. Probably back from the days of wondering if it was possible to get a decent retrofit LED for a Mag-Lite. Which there wasn't at the time, and then the market exploded with the influx of cheap LED flashlights, pretty much relegating the Mag-Lites to the bin.

 

[FlyWright]

Nothing wrong with solar. I find that being underway every other or third day completely recharges my battery bank without the need for generator time or solar.

Ted

That's been my profile on this @DeltaBridges trip. If I reposition every other day, I can easily keep my system happy with occasional genset runs for high load devices. Living in a brackish covered slip, solar is less attractive but my boat and my dink are much cleaner and healthier.

Here's a thriving community of flashlight enthusiasts! There really is something for everyone on the internet.

Thread drift alert!

Don't get me started on flashlights/torches! (A tip to my friends with foreign accents.)

I like to try to win a wine bottle from boats in an anchorage in a flashlight/spotlight competition. My flashlight is dangerously bright and can beat any boat spot I've seen....even the USCG boat spotlight.

To me, flashlights and horns are important. Flashlights, like cameras, engage the visual stimulus to the brain and the alarms/horns stimulate the aural inputs. Both can grab your attention if you're oblivious...like I was.

The first flashlight I grabbed when I headed into the ER was my dangerously bright LED conversion that my friend, Dan, made for me. He really knows his sh!t working for the CA DMV Solar/lighting maintenance dept.

 

[Moonstruck]

Old pilots have a way of figuring out problems. That’s the way they get to be old pilots! Good job, Al.

 

[foggysail]

Have no idea what you're talking about with " copper's positive temperature coefficient". There are literally tens of thousands of commercial boats over the last hundred years with large high output alternator.



Ted

I am not getting into circuit design other than to tell you as I did earlier that as copper heats, its resistance increases. The increased resistance generates additional wire losses (HEAT) which ......... until there is thermal runaway. Proper cooling is essential. It matters not how many boats are out there using alternators what matters is they have enough cooling under loaded conditions to prevent a runaway situation.

 

[foggysail]

The flashlight thing I knew about. Probably back from the days of wondering if it was possible to get a decent retrofit LED for a Mag-Lite. Which there wasn't at the time, and then the market exploded with the influx of cheap LED flashlights, pretty much relegating the Mag-Lites to the bin.

You can purchase LED replacement bulbs for Mag-Lites............Ebay for one source. The bulbs are voltage rated so you can get them for a variety of battery combos. I purchased one for a 3 cell light, works well.

 

[Codger2]

Codger,
Just curious. Is there lighting in the ER to provide that picture, or is that a dark view? If lit, do you have a switch at the helm for that or do you just leave them on underway?

That's an old photo with the factory 12v lights on, Since then I've added LEDS to the old fixtures & a new strip of LED between the engines. When running I leave the breaker on. Good resolution but I'm still not satisfied with the ER lighting. Below is a photo with ER lights off.

 

[FlyWright]

Here's a link to an old post of my cameras with and without light. The dark room image is in a pitch black environment.

Since these are old cameras, that low light LED feature has since died but the camera's look fine in a lighted ER. I have added LED ER lights so the colors now stand out more than they did before.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Engine room Cameras

 

[O C Diver]

I am not getting into circuit design other than to tell you as I did earlier that as copper heats, its resistance increases. The increased resistance generates additional wire losses (HEAT) which ......... until there is thermal runaway. Proper cooling is essential. It matters not how many boats are out there using alternators what matters is they have enough cooling under loaded conditions to prevent a runaway situation.

How about posting a link to an article / report of one of these runaway situations that happened in a boat.

Ted

 

[foggysail]

How about posting a link to an article / report of one of these runaway situations that happened in a boat.

Ted

Now you're asking for me to search and report alternator failure analyses ...if analyses even exist that occurred on boats? Good luck. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[wkearney99]

Can we not do the "prove it happened" thing here? There's always Hull Truth if you're looking for more of that.

 

[O C Diver]

Now you're asking for me to search and report alternator failure analyses ...if analyses even exist that occurred on boats? Good luck. I have better things to do with my time.

You're right, probably no failure analysis, because it hasn't happened. But now if you want to talk about real failure risk, fires and explosions on boats with gasoline powered inboard engines is very real. Plenty of video and fatalities available to discuss the risk versus benefit there.

Ted

 

[foggysail]

O C ——- like it or not, you cannot bull**** physic!

Balmar I found protects against thermal runaway by reducing their alternator outputs via a regulator.

From Balmar:

“Alternator and Battery Temperature Sensing and Control
Balmar multi-stage regulators have the ability to automatically correct charging output to ensure that batteries are properly charged regardless of ambient temperature. If battery temperatures exceed safe operating levels, Max Charge and ARS-5 Voltage Regulators will automatically reduce charging outputs to avoid dangerous thermal runaway conditions.‘’

As I stated earlier........PROPER COOLING is required. But your too smart, you know all the answers. Keep up the bull **** for those who will pay attention to you.

 

[janice142]

Don't get me started on flashlights/torches! (A tip to my friends with foreign accents.)

I like to try to win a wine bottle from boats in an anchorage in a flashlight/spotlight competition. My flashlight is dangerously bright and can beat any boat spot I've seen....even the USCG boat spotlight.

Having a great flashlight for in the bilge is a real benefit. No matter how many lights down there, a superior torch is something that once you have it, you'll never be without.

But FlyWright, Mine's bigger. hahahah. And she recharges via USB port. Lithium battery. From Walmart, and outrageously expensive. $60.

However, with that flashlight I can light up markers wayyyy in the distance. It will blind an intruder. It can light up the water too so I can watch fish.

Mine's 1300 lumens though the latest I saw was 1500 lumins.

For me, it's great. I used mine just yesterday (replacing a bilge pump) to light up the bilge. Frankly, it is so powerful, a neighbor called me a few days ago asking for help. At the end of the conversation he asked me to bring my flashlight..

Yes, I did thread on his fuel filter (for some reason I can thread stuff well, with my eyes closed) but he wanted to check out nooks and crannies in his engine room.

Anyway, my vote is if you have to buy a new flashlight, spend $60 and buy the best they have at Walmart. It's heavy (think like the old ones cops carried) but the rechargeable thing? That put it over the top for me.

Side Note: THere's a switch near the bottom that prevents the flashlight from turning on in your luggage, so if yours won't turn on flick that switch. It's got a red thingy on it, and that needs to be twisted to the right with the bulb part vertical.

So whatcha got ?!?

 

[psneeld]

Now you're asking for me to search and report alternator failure analyses ...if analyses even exist that occurred on boats? Good luck. I have better things to do with my time.

You only have better use of your time if you don't want an ounce of credibility here.


I too have never heard of an alternator runaway ...sure would like to see some evidence of one.


The thermal runaway is in batteries as far as I know and the last post doesn't specify so I will assume batteries.

 

[O C Diver]

:lol:

O C ——- like it or not, you cannot bull**** physic!

Balmar I found protects against thermal runaway by reducing their alternator outputs via a regulator.

From Balmar:

“Alternator and Battery Temperature Sensing and Control
Balmar multi-stage regulators have the ability to automatically correct charging output to ensure that batteries are properly charged regardless of ambient temperature. If battery temperatures exceed safe operating levels, Max Charge and ARS-5 Voltage Regulators will automatically reduce charging outputs to avoid dangerous thermal runaway conditions.‘’

As I stated earlier........PROPER COOLING is required. But your too smart, you know all the answers. Keep up the bull **** for those who will pay attention to you.

Apparently you don't know that most all external regulators have temperature safeties.

The page I linked for my 2nd alternator installation explained that I used then a Sterling external multistage regulator. I now have a Balmar regulator. Both have temperature probes for the battery bank and the alternator. The regulator reduces the charging rate if either the battery or the alternator exceed their temperature limit.

The small frame Balmar alternator needs to be able to reduce charge rate as its its smaller size can't dissipate the heat as well as the large frame Leece Neville alternator. In the 3 years 2,400 engine hours that I had this setup, the alternator has never reached a temperature that required the regulator to reduce the charge rate. That is why I chose a LARGE FRAME COMMERCIAL GRADE ALTERNATOR WITH SUPERIOR COOLING CAPACITY!

Here is a link to their commercial grade alternators.

http://www.prestolite.com/Prestolite - Leece Neville

Ted

 

[FlyWright]

Having a great flashlight for in the bilge is a real benefit. No matter how many lights down there, a superior torch is something that once you have it, you'll never be without.

But FlyWright, Mine's bigger. hahahah. And she recharges via USB port. Lithium battery. From Walmart, and outrageously expensive. $60.

However, with that flashlight I can light up markers wayyyy in the distance. It will blind an intruder. It can light up the water too so I can watch fish.

Mine's 1300 lumens though the latest I saw was 1500 lumins.

...

So whatcha got ?!?

I wish I knew the specs for mine but it's a custom-made modified Maglite built by my CalTrans engineering friend. The extra parts alone cost $100. He retrofitted it with a new switch, charging port and rechargeable batteries, a special convex glass lens, a super-bright LED and high end concave reflector. It puts out a very narrow, precise beam with minimum near-field scatter when focused as a tight pattern. If I use it at night out the side door from my lower helm, it lights what I point it at but not the foredeck so my night vision is minimally impacted.

I don't think it's an exaggeration at all to say it can illuminate a shoreline 1/4 mile away. I haven't really measured it but will challenge you and your little Walmart light to a duel! Loser buys the drinks!

 

[Codger2]

I haven't really measured it but will challenge you and your little Walmart light to a duel! Loser buys the drinks!

I'll accept the challenge the next time you're in my neck of the woods. A very good friend of mine gave me my all time brightest light I've ever had. It lights up the shore line (narrow beam) at an estimated 1000 feet. (maybe more?) I had planned to add a spotlight but after seeing the results of the new flashlight, I mounted its charger right next to my flybridge panel. Now, it's available for night dinghy rides too!

 

[janice142]

I may just be in trouble here. Sounds like fun though.

I suspect I may be buying you fellows (and Mrs. Codger too) a beverage. Mine doesn't have a way to narrow the field. It's still blindingly bright though.

Aboard Seaweed I consider it a safety measure. Shine in someone's eyes and they are going to be seeing a bright spot for quite some time. Folks talk about pepper spray (I have that too) however this is a part of my safety net.

When a pair of bad guys came up the canal and stopped at a boat diagonal from me, one of the miscreants climbed into said vessel (a center console)

My old spotlight didn't do a dang thing. I yelled, and the guy came out of the boat with a box. I believe that contained his tool kit. Anyway, nothing was stolen and said owner now raises his boat to the top of the lift each time rather than leaving it just a couple feet above the high water mark.

And that was the day I went shopping for a reliable flashlight/spotlight.
Rechargeable makes a world of difference.

Mea culpa (maybe! -- haven't thrown in the towel yet mind you)

 

[FlyWright]

OK, you're on, Walter! Next time I'm in San Diego, we'll have a flashlight duel.

(Reminder: I like IPA!)

 

[BeeJay]

OK, you're on, Walter! Next time I'm in San Diego, we'll have a flashlight duel.

(Reminder: I like IPA!)

Luke Skywalker versus Darth Vader

 

[BruceK]

"Smoke on the Water" would be worse!!!!!!

 

[FlyWright]

Luke Skywalker versus Darth Vader

I extend this challenge to any TFer:

Handheld flashlight against handheld flashlight.

Loser buys drinks for the night. If it's an agreed upon tie, I'll buy. Drinks start at 5 PDT.

Please supply quality IPA as compensation for your future loss.

Who's in?

(...this ought to be fun!!! )
.

 

[O C Diver]

I extend this challenge to any TFer:

Handheld flashlight against handheld flashlight.

Loser buys drinks for the night. If it's an agreed upon tie, I'll buy. Drinks start at 5 PDT.

Please supply quality IPA as compensation for your future loss.

Who's in?

(...this ought to be fun!!! )
.

Hmmm, sounds like free beer in Fort Pierce.

I've got a 20 Amp Hour 4,000 lumen pencil beam LED cave diving light that will put yours in its place.

Ted

 

[FlyWright]

You're on if I can get there, OCD. What are the dates?

 

[BDofMSP]

Hmmm, sounds like free beer in Fort Pierce.

I've got a 20 Amp Hour 4,000 lumen pencil beam LED cave diving light that will put yours in its place.

Ted

Is that the Bigblue? Looks sweet