Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-22-2018, 09:34 PM   #1
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
Simple wire splicing question

This is a very basic question and I feel kind of silly asking but...

I have a dry bilge pump I want to install. It is simply a low capacity, and low profile pump designed to get out the last bit of water from the bottom of the bilge that the regular bilge pump doesnít get.

I donít want to create another thru-hull so I am going to run the outflow from this into the shower sump where the shower sump pump will pump it overboard. I also would like to put in on the same electrical circuit.

I want to splice the + and - of this new bilge pump into + and - wire for the shower sump pump. So my question is this...

What is a good way to splice the wires in the bilge area? They shouldnít be wet, but they should be able to get wet if you follow me.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 09:50 PM   #2
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,890
I'd spend $15 and install a little IP67 rated junction box, then just crimp connections and shrink wrap as normal. IP67 is rated to withstand immersion for 30 minutes.
__________________

AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 10:57 PM   #3
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,386
I use terminal blocks and jumpers to connect two or more wires to one wire.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...erminal_Blocks
__________________
Parks Masterson
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 11:00 PM   #4
Guru
 
City: Port Townsend
Country: North America
Vessel Name: The Promise
Vessel Model: Roughwater 35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I use terminal blocks and jumpers to connect two or more wires to one wire.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...erminal_Blocks
Me too.
dhmeissner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 03:31 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Sabre602's Avatar
 
City: NW Washington State
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kingfisher
Vessel Model: 37' converted gillnetter/crabber
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 344
Me three. Short little terminal block, a few Anchor brand or similar heat-shrink ring terminals, bam...easy, quick, reliable. Of course, using tinned marine wire should go without saying....
__________________
Anson & Donna

Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama
Sabre602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:11 AM   #6
CMS
Senior Member


 
City: Casco Bay
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 217
Waterproof (adhesive heat sealed) butt splices are designed for this. Millions of artesian wells depend on heat sealed butt-splices and most are fully submerged for the entire life of the well pump.

#1 Use the correct crimp tool for the job

#2 Use a quality heat sealed butt-splice eg: Molex, AMP, FTZ etc..

#3 Properly heat seal the terminal using a heat gun, not flame. Heat it until any bubbles are gone and the adhesive begins to "flow". Heat from the center outwards...

#4 When properly melted the "glue" will create a small ring at each end of the terminal indicating even heat sealing.

#5 Do NOT put any grease or dielectric or paste of any sort inside the terminal. Bare tinned wire to bare tinned terminal, heat seal, done. Now it's fully water proof....

Marine Wire Termination


.
__________________
-CMS

MarineHowTo.com
CMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:26 AM   #7
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,592
So this bilge pump will always run before the other bilge pump will run and every time it runs, the shower sump pump will run. If you're away from the boat and the shower sump pump fails, does the bilge pump keep running (shower sump overflows back into the bilge) until it burns out?

Or is this second pump on a manual switch?

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:35 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
George Harmon's Avatar
 
City: Indian Harbour Beach
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 30 Rum Runner II
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 56
Here's a great online website dedicated to proper techniques of marine repairs and maintenance.
https://marinehowto.com/
George Harmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 03:09 PM   #9
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post

What is a good way to splice the wires in the bilge area? They shouldnít be wet, but they should be able to get wet if you follow me.
If 12V is allowed to get into the bilgewater a lot of damage can be done very quickly via Stray Current Corrosion.

The +12V side MUST be kept out of the bilgewater.
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 04:39 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Washington
Country: US
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 467
I would want a separate switch for the additional bilge pump so it could be turned on and off as needed. The wires can be joined at the switch. You can buy adapters to allow two connections to a blade terminal.
aboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 06:24 PM   #11
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,808
Terminal strip outside of the bilge if you have to make some sort of 3 wire wye connection. No soldering, no electrical tape, and no ScotchLocs!
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently southbound in South Carolina.
High Wire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:58 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Steve DAntonio's Avatar


 
City: Deltaville
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
This is a very basic question and I feel kind of silly asking but...

I have a dry bilge pump I want to install. It is simply a low capacity, and low profile pump designed to get out the last bit of water from the bottom of the bilge that the regular bilge pump doesnít get.

I donít want to create another thru-hull so I am going to run the outflow from this into the shower sump where the shower sump pump will pump it overboard. I also would like to put in on the same electrical circuit.

I want to splice the + and - of this new bilge pump into + and - wire for the shower sump pump. So my question is this...

What is a good way to splice the wires in the bilge area? They shouldnít be wet, but they should be able to get wet if you follow me.
My rule of thumb is if bilge pump connections can't be made 18" or more above the base of the pump, they should be submersible/waterproof. As others have noted terminal strips and ring terminals are ideal if they can meet this criteria. This is especially critical for high capacity pumps, but truly applies to all bilge pumps, including drying pumps. The cascading approach is less than ideal, but marginally acceptable if that's not your primary pump.

See Bilge Pump Systems; Design and Installation | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting for bilge pump installation details. And Crimping Etiquette | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting for crimping/solderless connector etiquette.
__________________
Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting, Inc.
https://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com
Steve DAntonio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 09:30 PM   #13
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
Simple wire splicing question

Thanks to all the suggestions. Letís see if I can clarify some things....

The bilge pump is only a drying pump, to use Steveís terminology above. It is not the primary bilge pump in that location but is only designed to get the little bit of water that the bilge pump leaves behind.

Normally I like terminal strips and jumpers, as was suggested by some above. In fact, I have the same terminal strip and jumpers that HopCar linked above waiting for me to install it for another low power splice job I am going to do. That is in a dry location however.

Ted, yes, this bilge pump would generally run before the main bilge pump would run. You are correct that if my shower sump pump failed, then that drying pump would run continuously until it burned out. Putting a separate switch there somewhere to be able to turn it off would be a good idea.

Gallenharmon, thanks for the link reminder. Silly me, I didnít check out CMSís website before asking the question.

CMS, thanks for the tips. And I reread the article that you linked. It had been a while since I have read it.

Again, I am not looking to do just a butt connection but want to take one + wire and send it to two wires. I will check to see if there is a place above the bilge where I can use a terminal strip, but if I canít, and have to make that connection in the bilge, any specific suggestions?

Edit: I just found that a step down butt connector could be used to connect one wire to two wires. That likely would be my best bet for use in the bilge.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 10:19 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Island Cessna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Edit: I just found that a step down butt connector could be used to connect one wire to two wires. That likely would be my best bet for use in the bilge.

I donít think the heat shrink/adhesive step down butt connector will seal around the figure 8 shape of the two wires. You are best to stay in a dry location and use the terminal strip, at least then you can see the effects of any moisture or corrosion.
Island Cessna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 02:27 PM   #15
Member
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mischief Maker
Vessel Model: Uniflite CC 37
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 13
Is This going to run off of the Bilge pump float switch? If so, how will it not shut off when the bilge pump does? Does it have it's own sense switch? As for connections, Use the terminal strip method if at all possible. I have tried the step don type of connecter, with limited positive results, in wet environments.
Mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 04:14 PM   #16
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallenharmon View Post
Here's a great online website dedicated to proper techniques of marine repairs and maintenance.
https://marinehowto.com/
That's CMS's website who posted 2 posts above yours. Same guy, same great advice!
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 05:31 PM   #17
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Cessna View Post
I don’t think the heat shrink/adhesive step down butt connector will seal around the figure 8 shape of the two wires. You are best to stay in a dry location and use the terminal strip, at least then you can see the effects of any moisture or corrosion.
I agree with the above concerns. I would make very significant efforts to keep any wire splices out of possible contact with bilge water. Once salty bilge water hits a positively energized terminal/wire stray current corrosion can run rampant and do serious damage in a very short time.

Perhaps you can extend individual wires with high quality adhesive lined butt splice connectors so that you can make the other connections where you can be sure bilge water will never contact a terminal that is not positively isolated from the water?

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2018, 01:43 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,682
there is a better way than even the heat sealed butts:



and:



Most bilge pumps sold have short lives. Make the replacement exercise faster.
The carlon box, mounted hole DOWN, with the stock, gasketed cover, becomes a submersible, dry box.
I've used this method for years in very wet boat bilges.
Yes, use the sealed ring terms for the cinch term. strip if you wish.
Enough wire service loop to pull the terminal strip out a bit for work. BUT, it sits inside the box, loose.
No need to seal the bottom hole.
Try to get the system up high, like a couple feet above nominal "high water mark" in the bilge.
diver dave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2018, 02:04 PM   #19
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischief View Post
Is This going to run off of the Bilge pump float switch? If so, how will it not shut off when the bilge pump does? Does it have it's own sense switch? As for connections, Use the terminal strip method if at all possible. I have tried the step don type of connecter, with limited positive results, in wet environments.
It has its own sensor and pump.

I spent a long time looking at the situation again on Saturday. The "best" way to do it would mean trying to run a new pair of wires from the pilothouse down to the bilge. It shouldn't be as hard as it might otherwise be due to some well designed wiring runs. Even so, it still wouldn't be easy. I will continue to explore the options. I think a step down connector may work if I do it high enough. I could use a terminal strip, but I'd rather not use that in an area anywhere near where they may be water.
__________________

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×