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Old 06-28-2019, 11:31 PM   #1
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Silicon Dioxide Batteries

Ahhh, the Internet. So many things to discover.....

Can anybody reference some independent third party testing of silicon dioxide batteries? So far all I can scare up is dealer and manufacturer information and some RV forum conversations.

Looks like they might be similar in many ways to Firefly's carbon foam batteries, but differ in that they can be charged at 14.7 rather than Firefly's 14.4 volts. It also appears they can take a full charge almost to 100% so don't need a smart three stage charging regime either. (Have emailed the company to confirm that one).

If it's true that three stage charging isn't needed, then it would save fuel if you needed a full charge...but if you didn't need a full charge, they don't suffer from sulfation either. Oh, and they only lose a tad over 1% of charge per month.

The 116 Ah Firefly G31 goes for $748.00 Cdn and the 108 Ah Si02 batteries from Azimuth Solar are on sale right now for $634.00 which makes for over $340.00 in savings over Firefly's when buying three batteries.

The savings over lithium batteries would be even more significant.

Sounding pretty good, eh? Too good to be true? This is why I would like to find a third party test!

Silicon Dioxide SiO2 Lead Crystal Batteries Extreme Temperature Deep Cycle Battery

Quote:
Unique Chemistry

The SiO2 technology is unique. Standard Lead Acid batteries suffer from freezing, poor low & high temperature performance, sulfation/corrosion, water loss, off-gassing, transport safety issues and short life cycles. The non-corrosive electrolyte in SiO2 batteries forms crystalline salts when charged/discharged.

SiO2 batteries use 95% less sulphuric acid than Lead Acid batteries. They are essentially a “dry-cell” battery with no liquid to freeze, spill or off-gas. Eliminating most of the acid, means that the lead plates last longer and weigh less.

Sulphation does not build-up and reduce capacity over time. With the crystalline structure, they can also be used in any orientation.

Longer Lasting

SiO2 Batteries last 2-5X as long as Lead Acid batteries. Deep-cycle Lead Acid batteries are rated from 500 charge/discharge cycles (discount batteries) to 1200 cycles for premium batteries, at 50% depth of discharge levels (DoD). The SiO2 batteries offer a much higher cycle life of 2800 cycles at 50% DoD. Their lifetime cost per cycle averages 1/2 to 1/3 of most deep-cycle batteries.

High Current Discharge Ability

SiO2 batteries have excellent high-current discharge ability and will not suffer any capacity loss when discharged to 100%. The Ultra Long-Life batteries have a rapid charging time in comparison to conventional alternatives.

At 25C a 100Ah battery can be charged at 25A per hour resulting in a 4 hour charge time (20-40% faster than AGM and Lead Acid batteries, which typically charge at 15-20C which is 5-7 hours for a 100Ah battery). In practical terms, if you are using a fuel generator to recharge your batteries, you will need to run it 20-40% less with SiO2 batteries, than with Lead Acid batteries.
https://soneil.com/products/battery/...ct_cat=battery
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:01 AM   #2
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Longer description here: https://www.gliderpilotshop.com/lead_crystal
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:45 AM   #3
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They do sound too good:well priced,long lived,easy to charge,no sulfation risks, etc. Watching and interested.
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Old 06-29-2019, 05:18 AM   #4
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It would be nice to know what the downside is. Anyone using them yet in industry?
There is another website Siliconebatteries.ca with contact info. No technical details at all other than size and AH.
I don't ever want to be a test guinea pig again since buying a first year GM car years ago.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:30 AM   #5
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Considering our 420 amp hour flooded lead acid battery bank cannot be taken below 50% without lasting harm, three of the G27 100 amp hour Si02 batteries should do the trick.

They are on sale now for $539.00 Cdn, which is a savings of $627 bucks compared to the Firefly batteries.

Still waiting for the an answer back about charging...would prefer to drop them in and connect them to our dumb as a rock but Steady Eddy self regulated Hamilton Ferris alternator...more savings

12V 100Ah G27 SiO2 Lead Crystal Deep Cycle RV Battery
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:57 AM   #6
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It all looks promising, but I am skeptical. We all know how new ideas come to market with crazy pricing until that product starts to become mainstream. I remember buying my first 12v AGM winch battery back in '93-95. I paid almost $400 with my company discount. It was massive compared to today's AGMs and less power. I don't remember the CCA or AH. It would run my 9000lb winch on my Jeep for about a minute and a half before getting to hot.




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It would be nice to know what the downside is. Anyone using them yet in industry?
There is another website Siliconebatteries.ca with contact info. No technical details at all other than size and AH.
I don't ever want to be a test guinea pig again since buying a first year GM car years ago.
Did you fall for one of those 350ci gas engines converted to run on diesel?
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:34 PM   #7
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Another source: https://www.electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/silicon.html

Have emailed companies for independent third party testing reports but it’s the Canada Day long weekend, so am not expecting an answer soon.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:53 PM   #8
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Looks like silicon wins in the ability to handle engine room temps, but fireflys look to provide more recharge cycles.

I am installing now three L15 4 volts and 4 group 31s into a massive bank that will both start the engines but provide house current. I’ll report back in the fall how it is all working.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go View Post

Did you fall for one of those 350ci gas engines converted to run on diesel?
Remember the 1980 Chevy Citation? Owned one for two weeks. It failed to start 3 times with less than 200 miles. Dealership said nothing wrong. Traded for a 1/2 ton pickup.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:38 AM   #10
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One of the principle advantages of the Firefly is the ability to run at partial states of charge for long periods with no damage. I wonder how the SiO2 batteries do in this regard? They are labeled in large print: "Recharge immediately after use" which suggests they do not compare well.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Remember the 1980 Chevy Citation? Owned one for two weeks. It failed to start 3 times with less than 200 miles. Dealership said nothing wrong. Traded for a 1/2 ton pickup.
Yep. When they worked, they were good little cars. I owned two '85 Cavaliers. They are a cousin of the Citation but a little better I think. I never had issues with the Cavilers. Both '85s went to 200,000 before being traded off. I also owned a '92 Cavalier and currently have a '98. '92 went to 180,000 before being traded my current '98 has 260,000+ and still going strong. She looks rough from the southern sun though.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:52 AM   #12
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It sounds like marketing hype. From the descriptions these are simply gel cell batteries. Gel cel batteries gel the electrolyte by mixing it with fumed or colloidal silica (SiO2 - or silicon dioxide). There is nothing new about gel cells. You might want to consider Trojan gel batteries (Trojan Motive Gel). Their group 31 battery will likely be under $500 CDN. Trojan is one of the best names in deep cycle batteries with a long track record and good support for their products.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:52 AM   #13
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One of the principle advantages of the Firefly is the ability to run at partial states of charge for long periods with no damage. I wonder how the SiO2 batteries do in this regard? They are labeled in large print: "Recharge immediately after use" which suggests they do not compare well.
They are supposed to not suffer from sulfation...so "they" say...
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Old 06-30-2019, 01:53 PM   #14
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They are supposed to not suffer from sulfation...so "they" say...
If not, then why the big label saying "recharge immediately after use"? Like to see some independent testing on them, such as Nigel Calder did on the Firefly.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:10 PM   #15
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This may provide some added info.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/ren...70-add-silicon
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:48 AM   #16
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The question I have is can you charge those batteries with a high amp alternator or can you “only” charge with a 220V genny? This has kept me away from some of the newer battery types. Also begs the question of solar panels as well?
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:29 AM   #17
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Taras,

What type of battery are you asking about. I have programmed my Magnum charger to work with fireflys. Firefly L-15s boast 4500 cycles with a depth of discharge of only 50%. That number drops to 1500 or so if you take them down to 20 percent. I will be on the other side of the grass by the time i reach that many cycles.

However, being in a warm engine room does haves a detrimental effect on battery life. I have yet to find anything describing the loss. It appears the silicone batteries tolerate heat better.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:47 AM   #18
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The question I have is can you charge those batteries with a high amp alternator or can you “only” charge with a 220V genny? This has kept me away from some of the newer battery types. Also begs the question of solar panels as well?

Why has this kept you away from newer battery types? What's the issue with alternator charging?
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:55 AM   #19
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I think you are wise to approach this with skepticism. Not that I know of anything wrong or false about their claims, but just that it takes a very long time to really prove out any of the claims, and to learn how they really behave long term. Firefly's hold promise, but nobody has been running them for more than a couple of years, so nobody really knows how well they will hold up longer term. Even LFP batteries which have been around for a couple of decades are still coming up with little twists and turns. And nobody has run them long enough to prove out any of the theorized approaches to extending life, etc.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:19 PM   #20
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For my purposes, I think the battery chemistry that had the highest charge rate once full charging voltage was reached would give the most advantages. Is there difference between the different technologies in this respect?
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