Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2017, 04:46 PM   #1
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Short inside inverter

Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2610.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	62086  
__________________
Advertisement

Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 06:28 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: Wherever the boat is
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Silver Quarter
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 456
I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
__________________

kev_rm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:09 PM   #3
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
xantrex moniter showed 30 amp incoming from shore power . I did not put an ammeter on it . The charger was still working . About a week ago I did a NO NO and used a short extension cord on a ceramic heater for about 3 hrs . After I turned it off I could hardly get the cord unplugged from the heater . I'm thinking this is when this connection inside the inverter started heating up .
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:39 PM   #4
Guru
 
Bob Cofer's Avatar
 
City: Caimanera
Country: Cuba
Vessel Name: Seafarer
Vessel Model: 1926 56 Winslow RDMY
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,182
I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
Bob Cofer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:42 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev_rm View Post
I don't think the connector is the problem...


Can you explain what you mean by "showed having 30 amps from shore power". You used an ammeter?
I don't think the connector is the problem either . Do you think this type of connector is the best to use here or is something else better ?
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:43 PM   #6
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cofer View Post
I would suggest going back with the same connector. Cut back to clean untarnished wire.
Thanks . Do you think the heater may have started this problem ?
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:45 PM   #7
Guru
 
Bob Cofer's Avatar
 
City: Caimanera
Country: Cuba
Vessel Name: Seafarer
Vessel Model: 1926 56 Winslow RDMY
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,182
The short answer is that unit was designed, tested and UL listed with that connector. Substituting with a different type will probably not improve the performance.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
Bob Cofer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 07:46 PM   #8
Guru
 
Bob Cofer's Avatar
 
City: Caimanera
Country: Cuba
Vessel Name: Seafarer
Vessel Model: 1926 56 Winslow RDMY
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,182
Yep. Especially since the plug was nearly melted in the cord.
__________________
What kind of boat is that?
Bob Cofer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 06:39 AM   #9
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,657
Placing stranded wire under a screw terminal is asking for trouble.

Dip the stranded end into solder (1/4 inch is fine) as you find on most Euro electrical goodies.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 06:50 AM   #10
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,327
That heat damage may go far up that burned lead.

Connector probably loosened with thermal cycles, probably good to snug it periodically.

And ceramic heaters can have high inrush current. I've got one and don't like using it on the boat for that reason.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 07:46 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,385
I think the damage was caused by the screw being slightly loose resulting in resistance and the connection heating up. I would replace the connector with a similar one rated for that current.


I would not dip the wire in solder, just make sure the bare ends are clean and shiny.


BTW: What you have there is not a "short". A "short" would be where the hot conductor touched the neutral or ground conductor. A "short" would trip the breaker or blow the fuse.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:08 AM   #12
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,589
I agree that the most likely problem was a slightly loose connection. I had a similar situation on the D.C. Input of my inverter. Anytime a connection becomes loose it has increased resistance and if it is used heavily it can get really hot. The heat at the connection makes the resistance even higher and eventually it's a runaway situation.

I would replace like with like, strip back the wire until you find good or replace wire as required. Tighten well and check tightness periodically.

If you're interested in covering the stranded wire before its clamped, the best way is with a ferrule. These are cheap and readily available. Unfortunately they require a crimper made for them.

Ken
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0004.JPG
Views:	165
Size:	71.5 KB
ID:	62135  
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:08 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
garrobito's Avatar
 
City: Oakland
Country: US
Vessel Name: Arcangel
Vessel Model: Buewater 40
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 148
Using unlisted electric material for an AC load is not a good idea.. You were lucky not caught fire... Always it's good idea keep an eye on AC connectors over the winter. Even with low charge the combination of heat and old plastic it's fatal for connectors.
I always reject the idea install an inverter at "on line" over the main AC line, always prefer put over a sub panel with dedicated AC line. An inverter storage a lot of power on that huge capacitor and can discharge in a second.
garrobito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:26 AM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:30 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,022
Mule

Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:40 AM   #16
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Mule

Do you always leave your inverter on when you are plugged into shore power? What brand and size of inverter are you using? PSW or MSW?
I'm not at the boat right now but I think it is Freedom inverter/charger 2000 . I leave on for the charger
only .
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 08:59 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
Is this just a standard connector that I would get from a home store or is this a marine grade connector? Electricity is by far my weakest point . I can fix this but I want to make sure I'm using the right materials .
I would disconnect it (after noting which wire goes where) and take it to a wholesale electronics distributor (NOT RADIO SHACK). Most cities have one.

They will recognize the connector and either have one in stock or can order one.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 09:32 AM   #18
Veteran Member
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: United States
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 35
If you cannot solder, use a ferrule on the stranded wire. Eurostrips are your best choice. Butt connections are not.
olegreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 10:14 AM   #19
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,224
Just curious: doesn't your inverter automatically transfer the inverter loads to shore side or genny power when those power sources are on? Also, isn't it a good idea to turn the inverter "off" when you are away from the boat?
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 10:27 AM   #20
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
Went out to check on boat today and noticed I didn't have any 110 volt power . The charger was on in the inverter and I showed having 30 amps from shore power but no 110 at my breaker box . I tracked it down to this connection inside the inverter . Would a butt connector be better here or should I go back with the same ? We were lucky we had no serious fire .

You cannot load an ac power source to the point where there is no voltage but have 30 amps. I don't doubt that something read 30 amperes, maybe a stuck meter. If the 30 amps you read was real, it had to have a source.......from your batteries or the dock power stanchion.

Did you find anything hot? That current will heat wire .... generates 4,600 watts somewhere if from ac line.
__________________

foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×